So what truly constitutes an evil act?

[Lyrwik]

Would that be an evil act on the part of the ranger or paladin? Would it matter whether or not he knew what the sword does? Would it only be an evil act if the sword actually sucked out a level, or would it still be considered against his alignment just for using it, even if it doesn't drain a level?

For a paladin, I'd say that for the paladin that they would still fall afoul of their obligations in this case. While that may seem harsh, to me a paladin does not only have an obligation to not perform evil acts, but also to never allow themself to be caused to do an evil act, including under compulsion or by 'accident'. Paladinhood is intended to be an incredibly high standard.

In support of this, under the paladin entry it say that "If the paladin commits an evil act while enchanted or controlled by magic, he loses his paladin status until he can atone for the deed." To me, unwittingly doing an evil act is broadly akin to unwillingly doing an evil act. In some cases it may be even slightly worse since they were still in control of themself when they did it, they just weren't sufficiently careful. However, given it wasn't a wilful evil act, I would still allow them to atone. As for what the punishment would be would depend on the gravity of the evil act.

[Halaster-Blackcloak]

On one hand, I think it's a bit harsh to judge the paladin for his act in that scenario. He simply grabs a sword to fight evil honorably. There's no way he can know the sword can suck souls or life force. It's not like he can simply call time to have someone cast a legend lore spell on it. On the other hand, if it does suck out a soul, that's still an evil act so I can see him being "tainted" as much by that act as he would be if charmed/controlled. And the good thing about that type of situation is that the loss is not permanent. He must atone, go on a quest, etc. But that's part of the risk of playing a paladin and it lends a level of fun, excitement and challenge to the game.

Now, that being said, I would argue that it would not be an evil act unless the sword actually sucked out a soul or the victim's life force. So say he rolled a 15 and just did normal damage with a sword of life stealing. No evil to atone for there.

[Cole]

Would that be an evil act on the part of the ranger or paladin? Would it matter whether or not he knew what the sword does? Would it only be an evil act if the sword actually sucked out a level, or would it still be considered against his alignment just for using it, even if it doesn't drain a level?

For a paladin, I'd say that for the paladin that they would still fall afoul of their obligations in this case. While that may seem harsh, to me a paladin does not only have an obligation to not perform evil acts, but also to never allow themself to be caused to do an evil act, including under compulsion or by 'accident'. Paladinhood is intended to be an incredibly high standard.

In support of this, under the paladin entry it say that "If the paladin commits an evil act while enchanted or controlled by magic, he loses his paladin status until he can atone for the deed." To me, unwittingly doing an evil act is broadly akin to unwillingly doing an evil act. In some cases it may be even slightly worse since they were still in control of themself when they did it, they just weren't sufficiently careful. However, given it wasn't a wilful evil act, I would still allow them to atone. As for what the punishment would be would depend on the gravity of the evil act.

Yup, as I said, must repent "atone" same thing to me. Go to church, say a few hail Marry's and move on I would play it the same as you Lyrwik

[garhkal]

On one hand, I think it's a bit harsh to judge the paladin for his act in that scenario. He simply grabs a sword to fight evil honorably. There's no way he can know the sword can suck souls or life force. It's not like he can simply call time to have someone cast a legend lore spell on it. On the other hand, if it does suck out a soul, that's still an evil act so I can see him being "tainted" as much by that act as he would be if charmed/controlled. And the good thing about that type of situation is that the loss is not permanent. He must atone, go on a quest, etc. But that's part of the risk of playing a paladin and it lends a level of fun, excitement and challenge to the game.

Now, that being said, I would argue that it would not be an evil act unless the sword actually sucked out a soul or the victim's life force. So say he rolled a 15 and just did normal damage with a sword of life stealing. No evil to atone for there.

Well, if he's SEEN the sword in action surely he'd know it can suck souls out. Or if the party researches their enemy, that might be one of the items of lore they get ON that enemy before they do battle.
So there ARE times he can know what the sword is, or suspect.. Hence why to me life stealers or 9 live stealers are both evil.. ALWAYS. So his DE power should show the sword.

[Halaster-Blackcloak]

But that's assuming two things:

1. The sword actually sucks out a life force or level while the paladin is witnessing it
2. The paladin realizes what he just witnessed and knows that it's not just "death by damage"

Someone else brought this up I think. The sword has only a 5% chance per hit of sucking out a level. So it's unlikely the paladin will even witness this happening since the chance of it happening is so small. Then there's the issue of effect. How can the paladin know that the victim has has a level sucked out? The victim simply fights at a lower level. How would one notice - in the heat of combat - that something unusual has just happened? How does one recognize a level drain? The same would apply to the Nine Lives Stealer. How would the paladin know that the sword just sucked the victim's life out? Again, unless there is some dramatic magical effect involved, it would simply look like the wielder struck a final, fatal blow to the victim, as he would with any sword.

[Halaster-Blackcloak]

Also, note that the 1E DMG says:

"In like fashion, powerful magic items which have some purpose as respects alignment will radiate evil or good - unless they are aligned with neutrality, which is neither, of course. Most other magic items will most certainly not, even though their effect might be for evil or good. Likewise, items which are not magical but which have powerful effects will probably not give any evil or good aura."

- 1E DMG, pg. 60/61

Emphasis mine. So unless it's a special purpose magic weapon (i.e. an intelligent weapon with a dedicated purpose - "slay good priests") with an alignment, the paladin won't be able to detect it as evil.