Pneumonia Sucks

[Cole]

So, I got a really bad FLU, probably worst in my life a few weeks ago. That Flu turned into Pneumonia and I had to go to the Emergency room last weekend. What a horrible experience.

Anyone else have this ever on here? I'm at day 10 now and I still have shit in my lungs... even after antibiotics. Going to see if I can get better drugs today.

[Halaster-Blackcloak]

If you're taking antibiotics, you absolutely need to follow up with good quality probiotics. Otherwise your intestinal flora is destroyed and you'll eventually have a lot more problems, likely immune suppression and intestinal/digestive issues. The two companies making the best supplements for this are Garden of Life and RenewLife. I always suggest the 400 billion live cultures from Garden of Life:

https://www.gardenoflife.com/content/pr ... -max-care/

The other thing I would definitely get is a colloidal silver called Argentyn 23:

https://www.natural-immunogenics.com/pr ... yn-23.html

They use this stuff on the Space Shuttle and Space Station and what not. Kills everything bad (bacteria, viruses, etc) and the bad stuff cannot become resistant. Amazingly, it does not harm the good bacteria in your system. And you cannot overdose no matter how much you take (you'd literally drown from hyper-hydration before it would even come close to being toxic). You can find it on Amazom.com, but you gotta be careful to make sure you don't get scammed there. I would call NEEDS.com and order it from them:

http://www.needs.com/

Taking the Argentyn 23 with olive leaf extract will cure just about anything. The absolute finest and most effective brand is d-lenolate from East Park Research:

https://www.eastparkresearch.com/Search ... p?Cat=1830

I've noticed that the olive leaf (d-lenolate) is very bitter and can cause slight nausea if you take high doses (it is extremely non-toxic, but can cause a Herxheimer reaction if you take too much at once, plus the bitterness and cold energy can cause nausea in high doses). I usually eat some crystallized ginger with it. Problem solved.

I can generally knock the flu out literally overnight if I catch it in time. If I don't start taking the supplements until after I feel like shit, it still knocks it out in 48 hour or less. Amazing shit, and the average doctor has no understanding of this stuff.

Skip taking any further antibiotics. They're only going to make things worse. Get the Argentyn 23 and the olive leaf, then take the probiotics.

For reference, I've been doing clinical nutrition research for a doctor in Albuquerque for over 2o years now, and have studied clinical nutrition, Ayurvedic medicine and Chinese medicine for 30+ years. When I got a side job at the health food store, I became somewhat of a celebrity. It got to the point where it was creepy - I'd have people waiting on me when I arrived at work, waiting in line to see me. Word spread that I knew how to heal people, and even doctors would come in and discuss things with me.

[TigerStripedDog]

Hi Cole. Physician of 7 years here. I treat PNA all the time. Check your temperature daily, if fever returns definitely see your doctor. Also be concerned if you develop worsening shortness of breath. Keep in mind that the damage done by the Pneumonia doesn't heal over night - even if the virus and/or bacteria are long gone. Post-viral coughs from influenza can last months. Pneumonia even longer. Especially if your lungs weren't in the best shape to begin with (for instance if you smoke, have worked around dust your whole life, or have a genetic condition). Also keep in mind that having had influenza immediately before, there is a chance this pneumonia was viral all along and so the antibiotics were more of a precaution (to prevent a secondary bacterial pneumonia caused by fluid stasis in the lungs) rather than a treatment for the pneumonia you had. There are few effective treatments for viral pneumonia other than supportive care.

The feeling of "still having shit in my lungs" is pretty common. As long as you're improving a little bit every day/week and the danger signs I mentioned above don't return you'll be okay.

Great motivation to get that influenza vaccination every year. There is a lot of misconception about "the Flu". Some people think "the flu" is a stomach/intestinal/vomiting/diarrhea disease. This couldn't be father from the truth. It is a dangerous respiratory virus that causes high fevers, bad cough, body aches, headaches - and in the worst cases viral pneumonia and even respiratory failure. Glad you're on the up-swing!

As for Probiotics - absolutely a good idea.
As for Argentyn 23 - I'm not familiar with the evidence, but I know that it is not a part of any evidence-based pneumonia treatment protocol that I follow (that is from the IDSA, AAFP, or CDC).

Tiger

[Halaster-Blackcloak]

Very few doctors have much (if any) training in clinical nutrition or any sort of healing modality outside of the allopathic drug/surgery model, so of course we won't expect to see colloidal silver as part of that model (it can't be patented). However, silver has been successfully used for decades to kill pathogens of all sorts, with amazing results. Here's a few links for research. Argentyn 23 has been the best one the market, but I have to check out the new one called Advanced Cellular Silver. Gotta look over all the lab work, etc.

http://www.hydrosolinfo.com/articles/si ... -05-25.php
http://www.positivehealth.com/article/i ... r-products
https://www.resultsrna.com/advanced-cel ... oggle-id-1
http://o3harper.com.previewc40.carrierz ... -products/

[Halaster-Blackcloak]

TigerStripedDog, I'm gonna be hitting you up for some research and discussion! It's always good to have an actual doctor to discuss some of these issues with. Especially from a protocol angle. I used to have discussion and debates with doctors all the time when I had the side job at the health food store. Oh, those were the days!

[TigerStripedDog]

You're always welcome to message Halaster.

Here is the research I found:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15114827 (2004).
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3003978/ 2010 - Article on absorption and toxicity.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27841769 (2017) - Mild support as a topical agent for chronic recalcitrant culture-positive (bacterial) rhinosinusitis. Note, toxicity is lower and effectiveness of mupirocin was superior.

I took a look at the data you presented. My main concerned is that none of those involved patient-oriented results. I know that Silver will kill bacteria in cultures. Silver sulfadiazene (Silvadene) has been used by various wound care clinics - though it has been falling out of favor as less toxic, and less irritating alternatives have come onto market. The greatest of which (I believe) is honey. Honey is marketed as "medi-honey" but really any pasteurized honey will do - and in a pinch even raw honey can work well if stored correctly. The point is, however, that the ingestion or inhalation of silver as a means to fight pneumonia does not have any evidence to support it. Lots of chemicals kill bacteria in the lab. Bleach can do that, but I don't know that drinking a cup of bleach is going to be effective against pneumonia. Or even inhaling vaporized bleach. And I certainly don't recommend that anyone try it - Bleach is very toxic.

Before I will prescribe a therapy, any therapy, I have to see the following 4 end points in the data:

1) Does the therapy/medication improve morbidity* and mortality** rates for the patient? (benevolence)
2) Does the therapy have an understood mechanism of action? (understood science)
3) Is the therapy well tolerated and/or safe? (non-malevolence)
4) Is the therapy more effective than accepted medications already available? (economy/justice)

Rule #2 can sometimes be avoided IF the therapy has proven benefit with long term morbidity/mortality data (Greater than 30 years).

It isn't enough for me to know if a lipid-lower medication lowers someone's cholesterol. I want to know if it reduces rates of heart attacks and helps people live longer - and I want to know that it does a BETTER job than the other medications on the market which are cheaper.

It isn't enough for me to know if a blood-thinner adequately increases a patient's protime, I want to know if it is going to reduce rates of thromboembolism and help them live longer - and I want to know that it does a BETTER job than the other medications on the market which are cheaper.

It isn't enough for me to know that colloidal silver is going to kill MRSA in a Petri dish. I want to know if it will shorten the clinical course of Pneumonia and improve survival rates. And in the case of colloidal silver I want to know if it can do it BETTER than Azithromycin (the first line therapy against Community Acquired Pneumonia in my geographical region).

Hope that helps you, and Cole, understand my process.

Tiger

*Morbidity - the condition of being diseased, or the severity of dysfunction caused by a disease.
**Mortality - the rate at which people pass away from a specific disease, or within a given time frame.

[Halaster-Blackcloak]

Thanks for those links.

One problem I have with a lot of medical studies (particularly when it comes to testing nutritional supplements) is how details are lost in the publishing. For example, brand/type/source or type of "study" being done. In one example, there was a study done recently that made dramatic headlines:

"Taking vitamins doesn't help...and may even hurt you!".

Well, the study sucked. It was more of a survey. They questioned people over the course of several years and had them self-report whether they were taking vitamins (multi- or individual, etc). That tells us nothing about the source, compliance (did they take them regularly? did some people take them every day and some once a week or month, etc) and so on and so forth.

Another study claimed vitamin E was actually harmful to take. The problem is, they were giving the test subjects vitamin e in the form of d-alpha tocopherol. Real vitamin E as it exists in nature consists of alpha tocopherol, beta tocopherol, gamma tocopherol, and deta tocopherol, plus alpha tocotrienol, beta tocotrienol, gamma tocotrienol and delta tocotrienol. It has 8 isomers as it appears in nature (in grass fed beef for example). We're finding out that taking only alpha tocopherol depletes the gamma isomer which is important for heart health. So not all "vitamin E" is the same and we need to be precise on what it is we're testing.

Same for vitamin C. The FDA allows companies to sell ascorbic acid as "Vitamin C". You'll see it on most labels of crappy vitamins such as Centrum or other cheap brands. It will say "Vitamin C as ascorbic acid". But ascorbic acid is only the antioxidant shell of the vitamin C molecule. Inside we have bio-flavonoids such as rutin and hesperidin, which help recycle and reform spent vitamin c in the body creates glutathione, prevents hardening of the arteries, etc. Hesperidine also helps block excess histamine. It also has P-Factor, J-Factor and K-Factor. P- Factor keeps the arteries pliable, J-Factor helps the body utilize oxygen, and K-Factor is involved in regulating blood clotting. It has tyrosinase, which helps adrenal function, modulates wound healing, etc. It also plays a role in helping our skin to tan.

So when someone says "Oh, vitamin C doesn't help with x", I ask "are you taking vitamin C or ascorbic acid"? I used to tell people that if you imagine a molecule of whole vitamin c taken from say an orange, and imagine it as a softball, the ascorbic acid would the the leather covering (i.e. the antioxidant shell). Take off the leather wrap and you still have a whole lotta ball in your hand.

With the silver it's the same thing. Which brand are they using? Which concentration? A lot of supplements are just overpriced junk.

The greatest of which (I believe) is honey. Honey is marketed as "medi-honey" but really any pasteurized honey will do - and in a pinch even raw honey can work well if stored correctly.

Manuka honey specifically. Very potent!

The point is, however, that the ingestion or inhalation of silver as a means to fight pneumonia does not have any evidence to support it. Lots of chemicals kill bacteria in the lab. Bleach can do that, but I don't know that drinking a cup of bleach is going to be effective against pneumonia. Or even inhaling vaporized bleach. And I certainly don't recommend that anyone try it - Bleach is very toxic.

LMAO!!!

I shit you not...a friend of mine worked in an ER. A woman came in saying "My son ate a bunch of ants that were crawling around the house. Will he be ok?". The doctor, after checking him out, said "Sure, he'll be fine. He can go home." Then the mother said "Thank god the ant poison I gave him killed the ants!" Oh, do we need a facepalm emoticon! Unreal!

Before I will prescribe a therapy, any therapy, I have to see the following 4 end points in the data:

1) Does the therapy/medication improve morbidity* and mortality** rates for the patient? (benevolence)
2) Does the therapy have an understood mechanism of action? (understood science)
3) Is the therapy well tolerated and/or safe? (non-malevolence)
4) Is the therapy more effective than accepted medications already available? (economy/justice)

Rule #2 can sometimes be avoided IF the therapy has proven benefit with long term morbidity/mortality data (Greater than 30 years).

#3 is especially important. If you've never read a book called The Cholesterol Hoax by Dr. Sherry Rogers M.D., it's well worth a look. I love her work because she writes in plain English (so I can recommend it to people who have no training in the field) and everything she says is referenced at the end of each chapter, all mainly sources being peer reviewed, prestigious medical journals (Cancer, JAMA, BJM, etc). She really sums up just how badly most doctors misunderstand cholesterol and why cholesterol lowering drugs are dangerous and in almost all cases unnecessary.

With #4, many times there is no western medical treatment for something, at least not from a drug/surgery model. So we end up turning to proven eastern or clinical nutrition solutions.

Rule #1 is of course the most important. Kinda sucks if the "medicine" makes you worse. Like propulsid for heartburn, which got pulled by the FDA for causing sudden heart attacks.

It isn't enough for me to know if a lipid-lower medication lowers someone's cholesterol. I want to know if it reduces rates of heart attacks and helps people live longer - and I want to know that it does a BETTER job than the other medications on the market which are cheaper.

Agreed. And with the cholesterol lowering drugs, its a big scam. According to every major, properly done study, the "sweet spot" for cholesterol (total) is between 180 and 240. This is where we see the least numbers of heart attacks, strokes, cancer, and deaths from other causes. Problem is, the drug companies market to the doctors so powerfully, that many become mere drug pushers. So I see doctors telling women to go on Lipitor or one of the other cholesterol-lowering drugs. And it take them below 170. And women who go that low start to have mental issues - depression, mood swings, etc, in addition to body aches and heart problems. This is because the drugs kill an enzyme that creates cholesterol (which the body needs), and this is also the enzyme responsible for creating Co-Enzyme Q10 (CoQ10), which every cell in the body needs for energy production. The heart uses something like 100x as much CoQ10 as the rest of the body. So they take the drug, they cut off their CoQ10 and they have increased heart attacks. The aches come from the inability to produce enough cholesterol to repair muscle. Mood swings results from disrupted hormone production which is created from cholesterol. It's just a mess!

It isn't enough for me to know that colloidal silver is going to kill MRSA in a Petri dish. I want to know if it will shorten the clinical course of Pneumonia and improve survival rates. And in the case of colloidal silver I want to know if it can do it BETTER than Azithromycin (the first line therapy against Community Acquired Pneumonia in my geographical region).

I agree, it's important to know how it works in the body, not just the lab. Silver has proven itself clinically over the years. I've cleared pink eye with it (diagnosed by my eye doctor) in 36 hours. He was aghast when I told him I was putting "non-sterile" drops in my eyes. On the other hand, he was amazed at how fast it cleared up.

Antibiotics are truly life savers. They are one of the only classes of drugs I consider to be truly helpful. Most other drugs are ultimately harmful. But even antibiotics get abused and even when not abused cause new problems, dysbiosis being one of the main ones. You really need to incorporate both sets of knowledge to treat disease. While I would use colloidal silver any day over antibiotics for most things, probiotics over antibiotics for a lot of other things, etc. - you can damn well be sure that if I get a raging MRSA infection or ebola or what not, I will be taking large doses of antibiotics! I'll certainly also take olive leaf and large, large doses of silver, but I'm not gonna skip the antibiotics! Afterwards, lots and lots of kefir (I make my own - a cup of raw kefir has about 2 TRILLION live beneficial bacteria - and it tastes like it!) or high quality commercial probiotics.

[Cole]

HOLY SHIT! That ant story is crazy.

Anyway, thanks for the tips guys. I'll do my best to get more probiotics in me asap. I've just been doing special yogurt so far.

So, after I made my post at the top, I had to do another chest x-ray, blood test and sputum test. All passed but the Sputum test (it failed harsh), so they put me on another set of Antibiotics, but this time some "RAN-Clarithromycin"

That shit made my life HELL! I had severe jaw pain, headaches and nausea constantly. Suffered though that with very little sleep and I decided FUCK THIS... to my wife's dismay. Called the doctor and re-scheduled to get something else.

Now I'm on some other shit I can't remember and it's wayyyyy better. No side effects. I'm almost 100% better now. Got 5 more days of this stuff and then I should be in the clear. It's been more than a month now of illness for me. I've learned allot during this time.

A.) I'm not a super hero anymore.
B.) I'm getting old and my habits need to change.
c.) You can actually count on people who love you (my kids probably saved my life)
d.) Don't try to be a tough guy and out last pneumonia. If you're short of breath GET to the hospital fast. (could have saved myself a ton of suffering)

Again, thanks for your opinions guys. It got pretty scary there for a bit. I'm good now!

[Halaster-Blackcloak]

Yeah, it's always best to nip these things in the bud earlier rather than later. Like I said, I've learned to interpret subtle clues that I'm coming down with a cold or flu, and if jump on the colloidal silver and olive leaf in time, I shirt-circuit it in time to not have to endure it. I'm fine in 24 hours or less. But if I wait a day or two, it's too late. I can reduce a 1-2 week long flu to just 3-4 days at most. But it's still 3-4 days of hell.

And Cole? If you think the ant story is crazy, I have a friend from high school who went on to become a doctor. He was doing his internship and a guy came into the emergency room with a 150 watt light bulb shoved totally inside his ass. I kid you not. Unbroken and completely inside. I was like...wtf? People are crazy!