So this post is going to be touchy - I'm sure. But this is purely about an IN-GAME concept. I want to know how you all handle politics in game? For instance, in my Homebrew world of Arcannan (http://arcannan.wiki-site.com/index.php/Main_Page) I have the "10 Kingdoms of Man" - as well as 4 additional peripheral human kingdoms, 2 Elven Kingdoms, and a Dwarven Kingdom. I have tried to represent all types of government/ideology:
- Jerun - Classic Roman-Style Republic/Oligarchy. Where "Senators" report to a "Proconsul". These people are theoretically elected but generally come from an aristocracy.
- Freeholds of Crayth - Libertarian Tribalism
- Kardormond - German Feudalism
- Valon - Meritocracy/Hegemony of Mages
- Al-Qatan - Theocracy
- Latan - Right-Winged Monarchy
- Guraanis - Left-Winged Democracy
- Dwarven Kingdoms - Corporatist Monarchy
etc...
In a previous world I had the Dwarven Kingdom actively undergoing a Bolshevik-esque revolution led by Marx Hammersickle, a Dwarven economist (communist) fighting against the Free-market monarchists.
The trouble I find is not inserting my own bias and choices into the mix. How do you all handle it?
Tiger
How do you handle In-Game Politics?
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TigerStripedDog
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How do you handle In-Game Politics?
*unreadable scribble*
Re: How do you handle In-Game Politics?
A marxist dwarf. Wow..
But one way to handle it, is to tell the players, "The overarching politics is a back drop i would Rather it not interfere in the game by you guys going at it.."
But one way to handle it, is to tell the players, "The overarching politics is a back drop i would Rather it not interfere in the game by you guys going at it.."
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TigerStripedDog
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Re: How do you handle In-Game Politics?
I think the politics is interesting, and I don't mind people bringing their politics. I meant more, how do you try to represent different political views?
Tiger
Tiger
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Halaster-Blackcloak
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Re: How do you handle In-Game Politics?
All my kingdoms are belong to TRUMP!!!
(Remember that "all your bases are belong to us" internet thing?)
Just kidding. I'm in "snowflake triggering mode".
In-game politics usually isn't an issue. Then again, most of my players have been pretty consistently along the same political beliefs as I am, so that wouldn't entail conflict. But in the game itself, I try not to model things too closely to modern politics. Nations have alignments (generally) and some are monarchies, some (such as Sembia in the FR) are trade federations, etc. There are evil theocracies, there are areas such as Thay (ruled by wizards), there is one nation ruled by a ruthless vampire lord - that one could possibly bear resemblance to modern day North Korea, although I don't intentionally try to make the comparison. It's only in afterthought that I might see that.
I try to keep escapist fantasy as just that - escapist. I have enough crap to deal with in the real world and real politics so I try to keep that stuff out of the game. No references to current events or events in the game mirroring current real world politics. I try to keep it medieval so to speak.
(Remember that "all your bases are belong to us" internet thing?)
Just kidding. I'm in "snowflake triggering mode".
In-game politics usually isn't an issue. Then again, most of my players have been pretty consistently along the same political beliefs as I am, so that wouldn't entail conflict. But in the game itself, I try not to model things too closely to modern politics. Nations have alignments (generally) and some are monarchies, some (such as Sembia in the FR) are trade federations, etc. There are evil theocracies, there are areas such as Thay (ruled by wizards), there is one nation ruled by a ruthless vampire lord - that one could possibly bear resemblance to modern day North Korea, although I don't intentionally try to make the comparison. It's only in afterthought that I might see that.
I try to keep escapist fantasy as just that - escapist. I have enough crap to deal with in the real world and real politics so I try to keep that stuff out of the game. No references to current events or events in the game mirroring current real world politics. I try to keep it medieval so to speak.
Re: How do you handle In-Game Politics?
I've used real world events in game before. Such as in one of my gaming sessions last year, i just got done reading another news story about someone's SUV and 2 other cars being ruined after a sink hole swallowed them up... Then put in a bunch of the 'good blue gnolls' who do a bit of trading with one of the port fishing towns, had a caravan of food almost get lost cause of a sink hole swallowing it up.Halaster-Blackcloak wrote:No references to current events or events in the game mirroring current real world politics. I try to keep it medieval so to speak.
ANd guess what, the PCs not only helped, but BOUGHT more food for that village.. Mucho good will right there.
Or a forest fire from lightning, when the party's in a forest during a weather storm, cause state X IRL is having one right now.. and such.
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TigerStripedDog
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Re: How do you handle In-Game Politics?
For me it has been an interesting opportunity to force players (from both sides of the aisle) to confront their preconceptions.
The most recent one was a newer player who was playing a Fighter/Mage. The party had gone on a quest to find a lost dwarven vault. They risked life and limb, fought Drow and all manner of beast to eventually find this place, and the incredible treasure within. They marched triumphantly back to the largest city in the area, pumped and ready to spend their loot. And spend they did.
Unfortunately, all of this spending brought the attention of the merchant's and thieves guilds. This town, you see, is ruled by a rather strict king fighting a civil war to keep his kingdom. His wartime tax is currently 50% of all earnings not sanctioned as guild activities (which the guilds would take a cut of, and then pay the king). The characters, were pretty incensed. The thief in the party was a member of the thieves' guild and so he got off light. The ranger and the fighter mage however, were in deep. Thankfully the ranger still had a lot of capital, and was owed money by the dwarves for recovering some mithral bars.
The fighter/mage however, had traded almost all of her treasure for a very powerful magical item - the Silver Torc, which raises her Int/Wis/Cha all by +1 (this is a character defining end-all item). The Torc's valuation was put, conservatively at 50,000gp by the head of the Jeweler's guild. So suddenly she's in the hole by 50% of that amount. The player, AND the character were FURIOUS. Talking about how this king didn't have the right to take her treasure, etc.
It was hilarious to watch.
And yeah, I think it might have changed her opinion on taxing the rich
Tiger
The most recent one was a newer player who was playing a Fighter/Mage. The party had gone on a quest to find a lost dwarven vault. They risked life and limb, fought Drow and all manner of beast to eventually find this place, and the incredible treasure within. They marched triumphantly back to the largest city in the area, pumped and ready to spend their loot. And spend they did.
Unfortunately, all of this spending brought the attention of the merchant's and thieves guilds. This town, you see, is ruled by a rather strict king fighting a civil war to keep his kingdom. His wartime tax is currently 50% of all earnings not sanctioned as guild activities (which the guilds would take a cut of, and then pay the king). The characters, were pretty incensed. The thief in the party was a member of the thieves' guild and so he got off light. The ranger and the fighter mage however, were in deep. Thankfully the ranger still had a lot of capital, and was owed money by the dwarves for recovering some mithral bars.
The fighter/mage however, had traded almost all of her treasure for a very powerful magical item - the Silver Torc, which raises her Int/Wis/Cha all by +1 (this is a character defining end-all item). The Torc's valuation was put, conservatively at 50,000gp by the head of the Jeweler's guild. So suddenly she's in the hole by 50% of that amount. The player, AND the character were FURIOUS. Talking about how this king didn't have the right to take her treasure, etc.
It was hilarious to watch.
And yeah, I think it might have changed her opinion on taxing the rich
Tiger
*unreadable scribble*
Re: How do you handle In-Game Politics?
Did they know of the 50% tax before hand, or was that just dropped on them?
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Halaster-Blackcloak
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Re: How do you handle In-Game Politics?
Garhkal wrote:
Oh that kinda stuff, sure. I do that from time to time. What I mean is I would not for example, last November, write a game where people were voting on the new ruler of a powerful kingdom where one of the candidates was a rich merchant while the other was a hideous cackling witch suffering from Parkinson's.I've used real world events in game before. Such as in one of my gaming sessions last year, i just got done reading another news story about someone's SUV and 2 other cars being ruined after a sink hole swallowed them up... Then put in a bunch of the 'good blue gnolls' who do a bit of trading with one of the port fishing towns, had a caravan of food almost get lost cause of a sink hole swallowing it up.
ANd guess what, the PCs not only helped, but BOUGHT more food for that village.. Mucho good will right there.
Or a forest fire from lightning, when the party's in a forest during a weather storm, cause state X IRL is having one right now.. and such.
Re: How do you handle In-Game Politics?
I've done that before too. BUT not using CURRENT events. I had one ream where a smart, charismatic and very strong willed female was vying for the top spot, running against some old haggered foes, but who were both well known and well liked (think Thatcher during the 80s running against Neil Kinnok and co).. And the party was hired BY one of the agents of one of those old fogies, to dig up dirt/wage a black ops like war on the woman to ruin her chances..Halaster-Blackcloak wrote: Oh that kinda stuff, sure. I do that from time to time. What I mean is I would not for example, last November, write a game where people were voting on the new ruler of a powerful kingdom where one of the candidates was a rich merchant while the other was a hideous cackling witch suffering from Parkinson's.
Re: How do you handle In-Game Politics?
I basically do this all of the time nowadays. The old black and white campaign settings no longer appeal to me (where, for instance, Orcs = Evil and Elves = Good or Kingdom = Good and Empire = Evil.)
In one of my current campaigns, we're doing a fantasy version of the Crisis of the Late Middle Ages. In the setting, the rich nobles mistreat the poor peasants while the growing middle-class is upsetting the status quo. The setting is steeped in racism (fantastic racism, I mean; that is, against elves, dwarves, orcs, etc. instead of skin color). Plague is spreading, but the main priesthood only cures those who can afford it. Neighbor countries smell weakness and are preparing war. Basically, everything is coming to a head and about to explode, and the PCs are working to gain prestige and influence so that when it happens, they can make some real change (what kind of change, though, will be up to them).
In another game, one of the main factions was a group of what were basically libertarians. They weren't all the same, either. There was nuance. Some were practically anarchists, committing terrorist acts on in hopes of bringing down the government. Others just wanted to be left alone to live how they want without interference.
Currently working on another game that takes place in a series of tropical islands, and I mostly want to explore Colonialism with it. I figure I'd let the PCs decide whether they are natives or colonials, and let things take shape from there.
Can't say I use current events, really. Although that's mostly because my games are play-by-post, so anything 'current' at the time they start is usually not so anymore by the time they end. Or sometimes a game takes a darker turn due to recent events without my meaning to. I'm running a Dragonlance game that focuses on life in a city occupied by a fascist army. The idea was to explore what living under such a regime would be like, especially as the PCs are sort of powerless to do anything about it (no matter how strong they get, they can't take on an entire occupying force with dragons). This game started in 2013, but by now a lot of things have changed in the world (including a sudden surge in fascism in the west) and I've lost several players who now found the setting far too bleak to enjoy. Can't say I blame them.
In one of my current campaigns, we're doing a fantasy version of the Crisis of the Late Middle Ages. In the setting, the rich nobles mistreat the poor peasants while the growing middle-class is upsetting the status quo. The setting is steeped in racism (fantastic racism, I mean; that is, against elves, dwarves, orcs, etc. instead of skin color). Plague is spreading, but the main priesthood only cures those who can afford it. Neighbor countries smell weakness and are preparing war. Basically, everything is coming to a head and about to explode, and the PCs are working to gain prestige and influence so that when it happens, they can make some real change (what kind of change, though, will be up to them).
In another game, one of the main factions was a group of what were basically libertarians. They weren't all the same, either. There was nuance. Some were practically anarchists, committing terrorist acts on in hopes of bringing down the government. Others just wanted to be left alone to live how they want without interference.
Currently working on another game that takes place in a series of tropical islands, and I mostly want to explore Colonialism with it. I figure I'd let the PCs decide whether they are natives or colonials, and let things take shape from there.
Can't say I use current events, really. Although that's mostly because my games are play-by-post, so anything 'current' at the time they start is usually not so anymore by the time they end. Or sometimes a game takes a darker turn due to recent events without my meaning to. I'm running a Dragonlance game that focuses on life in a city occupied by a fascist army. The idea was to explore what living under such a regime would be like, especially as the PCs are sort of powerless to do anything about it (no matter how strong they get, they can't take on an entire occupying force with dragons). This game started in 2013, but by now a lot of things have changed in the world (including a sudden surge in fascism in the west) and I've lost several players who now found the setting far too bleak to enjoy. Can't say I blame them.
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TigerStripedDog
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Re: How do you handle In-Game Politics?
NOPE. Lol.Did they know of the 50% tax before hand, or was that just dropped on them?
Tiger
*unreadable scribble*
Re: How do you handle In-Game Politics?
I'd kinda bee peeved as well if i had a 50% tax just dropped on me mid game too..
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TigerStripedDog
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Re: How do you handle In-Game Politics?
That's what they get for flaunting a ton of money all over town . That tax was always there, but being broke they never had to interact with it, and never thought to ask. To be fair one of the guildmasters in the town also tried to get them to sign on with the merchant's guild. The guild would have allowed them to only pay 10% and then he would have cooked some ledgers to have them been on guild business from the beginning... but they insulted the guy to his face and refused. Too bad too. If they had tried they could have negotiated that fee down to 8%. Would have been a lot less than 50%.
They also made an enemy of that guild master.
Oh, and there was the guild master of the Jeweler's guild who offered to pay 50,000gp for the Silver Torc - if they had negotiated with him he would have gladly added them to the Jeweler's guild retroactively and probably waived the fee all together - and they'd have had 50,000gp in the bank. But they refused to talk to him too
Tiger
. That tax was always there, but being broke they never had to interact with it, and never thought to ask. To be fair one of the guildmasters in the town also tried to get them to sign on with the merchant's guild. The guild would have allowed them to only pay 10% and then he would have cooked some ledgers to have them been on guild business from the beginning... but they insulted the guy to his face and refused. Too bad too. If they had tried they could have negotiated that fee down to 8%. Would have been a lot less than 50%.They also made an enemy of that guild master.
Oh, and there was the guild master of the Jeweler's guild who offered to pay 50,000gp for the Silver Torc - if they had negotiated with him he would have gladly added them to the Jeweler's guild retroactively and probably waived the fee all together - and they'd have had 50,000gp in the bank. But they refused to talk to him too
Tiger
*unreadable scribble*
Re: How do you handle In-Game Politics?
That's what happens when you irk off high ranking locals..
Many moons back, i told the group i was using a variation on the "Adventurers license" from Cormyr, to where every active PC (and npc) and such in the group had to sign up on a charter, that was registered with the local lordship. This was cause they were trying to crack down on people carrying lots of weaponry. The license allowed you to DO so, but cause you were known it would be harder to do stuff, surreptitiously. They balked at the 500gp license +100/yr per person registration. THEN got hit by a patrol from the kingdom for their license which they tried to con/charm/forge their way out of..
The 2 party mages tried charms on the patrol's leader and priets (in full view of the patrol members), both baddies saved (nat 18 and 20! rolled openly). Then the party thief, sat behind everyone else, and tried to real quickly WRITE up one, using his forgery NWP.. HE ROLLED a nat 20!
Then they tried some Conning (RP npc reaction)..
Eventually it got into combat, the patrol lost 7 of their 10 man group, the PC's 4 pcs were out 2 henchmen dead, and the 3 remaining were captured... ALL got tossed in jail and were sentenced to death..
WORST of it imo, only 2 were chaotics, the other 5 were lawful. 4 of those lawful good, and ONE WAS the bloody cleric, of a god of JUSTICE....
BOY Did he get it from his god!!
Many moons back, i told the group i was using a variation on the "Adventurers license" from Cormyr, to where every active PC (and npc) and such in the group had to sign up on a charter, that was registered with the local lordship. This was cause they were trying to crack down on people carrying lots of weaponry. The license allowed you to DO so, but cause you were known it would be harder to do stuff, surreptitiously. They balked at the 500gp license +100/yr per person registration. THEN got hit by a patrol from the kingdom for their license which they tried to con/charm/forge their way out of..
The 2 party mages tried charms on the patrol's leader and priets (in full view of the patrol members), both baddies saved (nat 18 and 20! rolled openly). Then the party thief, sat behind everyone else, and tried to real quickly WRITE up one, using his forgery NWP.. HE ROLLED a nat 20!
Then they tried some Conning (RP npc reaction)..
Eventually it got into combat, the patrol lost 7 of their 10 man group, the PC's 4 pcs were out 2 henchmen dead, and the 3 remaining were captured... ALL got tossed in jail and were sentenced to death..
WORST of it imo, only 2 were chaotics, the other 5 were lawful. 4 of those lawful good, and ONE WAS the bloody cleric, of a god of JUSTICE....
BOY Did he get it from his god!!
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Halaster-Blackcloak
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Re: How do you handle In-Game Politics?
I recall once, a relatively short-lived FR campaign with a side group (who were not "my type" of gamers). They just didn't get it. The party was relatively low level (5th or 6th). They had been sent to Thay to rescue some artisan's daughter who had been kidnapped and sold into slavery. In-game it was explained to them how corrupt, restrictive and dangerous it was being in Thay. I ran Thay some ways similar to modern day North Korea. When the PCs were allowed entry, they were advised that Red Wizards can demand identification papers of them at any time, as can gnoll patrols, and that the Red Wizards rule with an iron hand. They were advised that disobedience to a Red Wizard is a capital crime punishable by death, which is often handed out right then and there by the Red Wizard.
So the PCs snuck out one night, assuming there would be fewer guards to avoid and no Red Wizards out and about. They took out a small gnoll patrol, but were surprised by a Red Wizard who snuck up silently behind them. He demanded papers and also wanted to examine the wizard's spellbook. The wizard indignantly spat at him and said "To Hades with you" or something along those lines.
The PCs reasoned that because the wizard was out late on patrol he was an apprentice/low level wizard and, since he had only 2 armor-clad zombie guards with him, any fight would be easy, so they attacked! Umm...no. Turns out the Red Wizard was Zulkir Szass Tam, out for one of his midnight walks in the moonlight looking for victims to add to his undead army, accompanied by two dread warriors of Tam (essentially zombies created by one of Szass Tam's specialty spells - they have 4 HD, AC:2, do 1d8+2 damage, 1 attack, and are turned as wights). Szass Tam is, for those who do not play FR, a 24th-level necromancer lich!
Undead move silently, so the PCs dd not know they were there until he confronted them verbally from behind.
Cleric fails to turn the dread warriors (as if that would even have mattered), Szass Tam summons a few spectres and laughs his hollow laugh as the PCs are soon added to his undead army.
End of campaign.
So the PCs snuck out one night, assuming there would be fewer guards to avoid and no Red Wizards out and about. They took out a small gnoll patrol, but were surprised by a Red Wizard who snuck up silently behind them. He demanded papers and also wanted to examine the wizard's spellbook. The wizard indignantly spat at him and said "To Hades with you" or something along those lines.
The PCs reasoned that because the wizard was out late on patrol he was an apprentice/low level wizard and, since he had only 2 armor-clad zombie guards with him, any fight would be easy, so they attacked! Umm...no. Turns out the Red Wizard was Zulkir Szass Tam, out for one of his midnight walks in the moonlight looking for victims to add to his undead army, accompanied by two dread warriors of Tam (essentially zombies created by one of Szass Tam's specialty spells - they have 4 HD, AC:2, do 1d8+2 damage, 1 attack, and are turned as wights). Szass Tam is, for those who do not play FR, a 24th-level necromancer lich!
Undead move silently, so the PCs dd not know they were there until he confronted them verbally from behind. Cleric fails to turn the dread warriors (as if that would even have mattered), Szass Tam summons a few spectres and laughs his hollow laugh as the PCs are soon added to his undead army.
End of campaign.