WotL OOC Thread III

[JadedDM]

There's a lot to consider.

Generally speaking, dwarves of other clans (both hill and mountain) disdain gully dwarves. To some, they are an embarrassment to not speak about in public. To others, they are no better than goblins and cutting them down would be doing a service. There is massive racism against them and they are generally considered sub-human (or sub-dwarven, in this case) and not worthy of the same basic rights as other races. This racism isn't just limited to dwarves, too. Elves, humans and other races tend to look down upon them, as well.

On the other hand, Shima is an outcast. His own kin would just as soon spit on him as they would on the Aghar.

Another thing to consider: Although there is no serious evidence backing it up, a popular theory is that gully dwarves were created by the interbreeding of 'true' dwarves and gnomes. If I recall correctly, the reason Shima is an outcast was because his mother married a gnome. I think I pointed out to you at the time what a scandal this would be in a place like Hillhome. There would always be a concern she might produce gully dwarves if they decide to have any children.

So there are lots of ways you could take this. Shima can hate gully dwarves because he was taught to, and just never questioned it even after becoming a pariah. Or he could hate them because he wants to shake off his family's scandals and prove he is a 'real dwarf.' Maybe he thinks hatred of the Aghar could make him feel closer to his own people, making him more like them.

Or maybe he views them with sympathy. They are outcasts that are only trying to survive, like him. They aren't bad, just different. Maybe his time as an outcast has taught him not to judge others (he is, after all, currently working with a minotaur). Perhaps he'd want to be kind to them as a way to rebel against his people, a sort of 'take that' toward them.

Or maybe he doesn't feel sympathy or antipathy toward them. They are just an obstacle on a job, or a possibly opportunity to exploit. If they were human or Neidar instead, it wouldn't make any difference to him.

So there are numerous ways you could have him feel toward them.

[Chris1234]

Thanks Jaded. Copiously good, as ever.
Amusingly you have a wonderful knack of saying, "...but it's up to you."
Not a criticism at all, I acknowledge the responsibility is mine. It just made me smile.

[djhyland]

Thanks Jaded. Copiously good, as ever.
Amusingly you have a wonderful knack of saying, "...but it's up to you."
Not a criticism at all, I acknowledge the responsibility is mine. It just made me smile.

Noooo, Shima, no!

Now I'm sad that Darga didn't survive the sewers to encounter these gully dwarves.

[JadedDM]

Amusingly you have a wonderful knack of saying, "...but it's up to you."

Well, it's true, though. Only the players can decide how their characters should act. I can just provide important context to help make that decision.

Now I'm sad that Darga didn't survive the sewers to encounter these gully dwarves.

I wonder how he would have reacted to finding them.

[Chris1234]

IC the gnome dragged Shima's mother down and that got them cast out.
While he views that as the individual gnome involved and his mother's questionable choice, he doesn't have any issue with gnomes generically, but the gully's rub his nose in all that is wrong with his life.
Not to say its right or logical, it surely isn't. Jut strong feelings.
Doesn't occur to him (yet) that he's being hypocritical.
But (as per LN alignment) has left the decision to Felran/ne-Chanz.

If there's an in-game reason that your char has communicated to either of them as to why they shouldn't wipe out the Gullies, feel free to PM the players.
(I don't need to know. Seems a shame, personally, but my views aren't 100% coincident with Shima's).

I hope that makes sense. I did wrestle with this one a bit TBH.

[djhyland]

I wonder how he would have reacted to finding them.

Having lived in similar conditions, Darga wouldn't have been at all surprised to find them. He certainly would have been against "taking care" of them! He'd have likely invited them to stay at his/Kynaston's house instead, at least for the time being. He'd have probably looked for places for them to live/work in town, or if they had wished, let them return to their home in the sewers after the thieves' guild felt that they'd "reclaimed" the sewers.

[Haahque]

Are there food merchants in/near the market square? Do any of them serve prepared food, or is it all grocery-style make it yourself?

Haahqae should think about lunch soon.

[JadedDM]

He'd have likely invited them to stay at his/Kynaston's house instead, at least for the time being.

Kynaston's house was a single room shack, essentially. I'm not sure if you could cram another twelve gully dwarves in there, logistically speaking.

Ironically, if Darga had convinced them to leave the sewers, they'd probably have been wiped out in the homeless purge the army did when they arrived. Living in the sewers is basically what saved them.

Are there food merchants in/near the market square?

Yes, a few. They're more expensive than the taverns and mostly just serve the equivalent of carnival food (mostly fried stuff).

There are also grocery merchants who sell food, but it's not prepared or cooked (for instance, a fish monger might sell fresh fish).

[Haahque]

Well Haahqae right now is doing his damnedest to make money and save up for his goals, so he loathes spending money in general (for now), he's also foolish enough that he probably doesn't realize these merchants are selling food for more then it's worth and that not spending money frivolously is party of saving up.

[Haahque]

Arula's OoC comment confused me. I thought "blacksmithing" was smelting iron, the "black" from blacksmithing referring to the colour of the iron. However Arula's comment made it sound like blacksmithing and smelting iron were two completely different things.

[djhyland]

Arula's OoC comment confused me. I thought "blacksmithing" was smelting iron, the "black" from blacksmithing referring to the colour of the iron. However Arula's comment made it sound like blacksmithing and smelting iron were two completely different things.

Blacksmithing (at least as I understand it) is the shaping of steel or iron that's already been smelted (e.g. taking bars of steel and making them into horseshoes or nails or whatnot). Smelting is taking the ore and reducing it to metal. I don't think the rules make a distinction between the two (or at least, there's not a "smelting" proficiency), so I wish JadedDM to make the call on whether Arulia can do as Bear is requesting.

[Haahque]

Ah, that makes more sense. Thanks!

[BishGada]

Combination of spells supposed to be that you cast one spell and then other spells are more effective. I haven't think of anything specific yet but it was a general idea.
For example, if you cast darkness and then suddenly light, it should have a side effect of overwhelming the enemy with the sudden light. Or if there is a spell that makes the environment more dense and then you cast fireball, the impact of the blow should be touher. Or if you cast some plant growth or entangle and then fireball that besides it own damage also the plants catch fire, it can be more effective. And so on...

[JadedDM]

(OOC: I think I need more information before Arulia can agree to work with Bear or not. Smelting iron sounds like it would require quite different skills and equipment than blacksmithing. Does the shop have the required tools to smelt iron, and does Arulia's blacksmithing proficiency grant her the knowledge to do so? I mean, since Bear came to the shop looking for Thoron, I'd guess that he's heard that Thoron would be able to do it with the equipment he has, but that doesn't mean that he's heard right. Given her training and equipment, does Arulia feel that she can help him out? And if she can, how much can she expect to earn for doing so? Are there guidelines for this in the books somewhere? I can look up the price of steel vs. the price of iron ore online (e.g. https://www.quandl.com/collections/mark ... ial-metals), but that supposes modern production techniques, and it doesn't tell me what the yield of steel is from a given amount of iron ore or what the production costs are.)

You are right, smelting and smithing are two different things, but for the sake of simplicity, I don't see a need for two separate proficiencies for them. We can say that smelting falls under the smithing proficiency.

Thoron does have a small smelter in his shop. As for what to charge, well it costs 5 steel a day to operate the smelter (due to the expensive materials needed to run it). So if you charge him 5 steel exactly, you'll break even. You can pick your own price on what you think is fair, and he'll likely try and haggle you down if you go too high.

Also...honestly surprised you recognized him as Bear. He hasn't appeared in the game in two years (real time).

For example, if you cast darkness and then suddenly light, it should have a side effect of overwhelming the enemy with the sudden light. Or if there is a spell that makes the environment more dense and then you cast fireball, the impact of the blow should be touher. Or if you cast some plant growth or entangle and then fireball that besides it own damage also the plants catch fire, it can be more effective. And so on...

Okay, I see. Actually, if you were to cast Darkness and then Light, they would just cancel each other out. That's true for most spells and their reversible forms like Haste/Slow, Enlarge/Reduce, etc.

Entangle and Plant Growth are druidic spells, not arcane, so Magnus likely wouldn't talk about them or even know about them.

But I can think of some arcane examples, like Web and then Burning Hands, for instance.

(OOC: How does it work in the Test regarding the limit of spells a mage knows at a day? Do they tell you from ahead what to learn for specific task?)

I suspect it would be the other way around. That is, you prepare the spells, then the Test reshapes itself taking those new spells into account.

[Chris1234]

Any indication on when chese &/or spyguy are back?