WotL OOC Thread III

[Haahque]

I was sort of trying to do some character development this chapter, becoming a little more greedy then before, coming up with his own plans instead of letting things happen to him and reacting in a hero-y fashion and thinking about actually performing a heist (while he may have done thievery before, none of it was ever planned ahead of time, and half the time he didn't even know he stole).

Then this partially got derailed due to Tulbas (partially because of low wis of Haahqae allowing him to be sidetracked, partially because his delay in posting near the beginning of the month slowed this down when I was most ready to do it, and I got busier later.)

Haahqae seems to have moved away from player-player interactions mostly due to this shift in personality I was trying. He's trying to get something done by himself, not by hiring a large group of PCs and NPCs to do it for him (while he helps and leads them). And also partially because the other players have made it hard for him to interact with them (they all live very far away at Haahqae's move-speed, most of them barely know him because they joined the game late and Kendra's husband went out of his way to make sure Haahqae does not speak to her).

And yeah, he doesn't have much in terms of personal goals except for the ones he's trying to set up, because that's sort of how he works. When he gets a goal he works towards it as best he can. Even if he gets distracted, he's still trying to achieve his goal he's set out for himself. (In this case that means he does very little except try to make this performance a success.)

[JadedDM]

I hadn't realized any of that. I can work with that, though. I assume he's moving away from team-building due to the fact he got burned twice that way. But what's the cause for his becoming more greedy? Also, if the heist is successful, does he have any plans for the money?

[Haahque]

His cause for the greed I PM'd you a long time ago now, back then he wanted the money but he was expecting to get it through his usual team-building, non-greedy methods, but since he's been down on his luck with these methods he's been looking for new ways to get the money (performance for the soldiers), and he's becoming more desperate for it (thinking about stealing, like actual stealing).

To refresh your memory about said PM from all that time ago:
1) He wants money so that he can summon a familiar.
2) He wants money so that he can start researching new spells.

And recently he added:
3) He wants money so that he can make up to Ismene for the latest failed quest

[JadedDM]

Okay, yeah, I found it. May 12th of last year. I had forgotten about it. So that's what he's saving up for.

Well, if he can pull off a heist, that would certainly cover most of those expenses. (Meanwhile, most of the other PCs are desperately trying to scrape together a handful of silvers to avoid starving or being sold into slavery. )

[Haahque]

Yeah, that's what he's "saving up" for, although it's hard to call it saving up when he has less money now then when he made those goals a year ago.
But at least he doesn't have to (immediately) worry about being sold into slavery!

Meanwhile, the greedy part that he's developing has the potential to be temporary (subside once he's achieve those 3 above goals) or permanent (and get worse), depending on how long it takes him to get the money, what he has to do to get it (Does it feel good for him to steal intentionally? How hard was it? Would he want to do it again?), and what the reactions of people he values thinks about the results of him getting/spending it like this (although these people seem to include only Tulbas and Ismene right now... and maybe Gregeddin). Of course, if he never gets the money, it's more of the permanent sort of shift.

While it's true that Haahqae came in last for CH 10, he hasn't consistently been last. Felran was last in CH 9, Tulbas was last in CH 8, and Felran was last in CH 7. The last time Haahqae came in last was CH 6. The current XP average of the party is 10.2k XP, and he has 10.8k, so he's actually ahead of the curve.

Perhaps this opinion was just formed by pessimism or grass is greener effect, but I've sort of been feeling like this since about chapter 6 (I think that's when he made the goals for the money which he hasn't got yet).
Chapter 6 -> 211, party average was 318, lowest XP in the party, although no one got that much this chapter.
Chapter 7 -> 2516 XP, party average was 2435! Yay he actually got higher then average here. however I have a feeling I forgot this due to getting all his loot stolen.
Chapter 8 -> 1030 XP, party average was 1216, and that average was dragged down somewhat by a new player joining the game late into the chapter.
Chapter 9 -> 683 XP, party average was 724, somewhat below average again.
Chapter 10 -> 220 XP, party average was 407 -> nearly half of the average XP, and it's when I tried to do some character development and take his fate into his own hands. Doesn't feel like the best start for that strategy.

Perhaps I just haven't been as good roleplaying or making things that grant XP happen since chapter 5. I must have got ahead of the curve before then, since he sure hasn't been since then. Maybe the new players that have joined are better roleplayers and have raised the bar so Haahqae's been pretty constantly under it. Maybe I've felt a bit demotivated by how ineffective he's been since then. Whatever the reason, I've felt fairly constantly like things haven't been going well for Haahqae for a long time now. I'll admit that I didn't write a post about Haahqae finishing up his supper and going up to his room in the last week because I was disappointed about failing to do half of the things he planned to do in the day and I felt like there was no reason to post a "Haahqae goes to bed disappointed" post. (performed at only 1 of 3 taverns he had planned, did not get to execute his baaz drinking plan, Tulbas didn't seem to be the best assistant he could find with the show, failed to procure drinks for the show)

However, I do see your point. I will try to post more frequently if I can. I have done some DMing these forum RP's and I do know how frustrating it can be when the players take a long time to post. I appreciative all the effort you put into creating your games, your knowledge of the campaign setting and your willingness to run a sandbox-like game where all the players are doing different things. It is a lot of work.

[Chris1234]

Level Ups
Chris, I'll need to know how you'll distribute those thief skill points.

Open Locks (35%+15% --> 50%), Move Silently (65%+5% --> 70%), Hide in Shadows (60% +10% --> 70%)

I'd missed the Wayfarer -5% to RL. You're right as usual.

[JadedDM]

On the other hand, not too long ago (after chapter 8, I believe), Haahqae was actually 2,000 XP ahead of everyone else. But really, it's not a competition. And nobody can stay ahead of the average all of the time. Looking too closely at that sort of thing can drive one mad.

But anyway, I think communication is key here. Letting me know, regularly, what you're up to and how you plan to go about it can really help. Because I might miss something. A change might be too subtle for me to notice. In this instance, I hadn't noticed Haahqae was trying to go solo. So you telling me will let me take that into account when I calculate XP for the next chapter. And you did PM me about his motivation for more money, but it was a year ago and I've since forgotten (and was thus scratching my head at why he was so driven for coin when he had so much already). And sometimes I'm not entirely sure why a PC is doing something (whenever Haahqae makes a speech about how they should Do The Right Thing Because That's What Heroes Do, I'm never entirely sure if he's being sincere or just putting on a show to impress others, for instance).

However, I'm often reluctant to ask players on their motivations, because it so often blows up in my face. (Players have a habit of being rather sensitive about such questions. "Why did your Lawful Good character burn down that orphanage?" "ARE YOU SAYING I'M BAD AT ROLEPLAYING LAWFUL GOOD?!") So regular updates, especially between chapters, can be really helpful.

For instance, just talking about all of this has given me some ideas about the heist.

[BishGada]

Hi, I'm sorry if sometimes I don't post frequently. I do try to let know from ahead when I know it.

My two cents on the subject:
Sometimes when I can't interact with someone I just write about what Tulbas thinks for himself. These thoughts can have a lot of info regarding the absent player, they can also connect the current actions and even PCs to my character history, it can show character, or plans, or ideas, or philosophy. By the way I always got the impression over the last 3 years I'm playing here that Haaque had a lot of philosophy in his posts (and original one in his views of the world). So with this method you can role-play even without interaction.

In any case I think I had very low percent of off-time. Usually I'm here at least once a day or two days.

Specifically, I mentioned in the last post that Tulbas is into the performance of Haaque and this is only in meaning to help Haaque because he likes him. (He sees him as a little child. And he keep thinking he is kender ). But this is not on the top of his to do list so he might forget it during his training. If Haaque will come to him he will willingly participate in the practice for the performance.

[TristenC]

Sorry to hear about your house mgbevan good luck, man

[Haahque]

I almost always have reasons for everything Haahqae does, often more then one. They're not always good reasons, and I might want to PM them sometimes, but you can always ask if you like.

For example I thought I'd give the reasons for Haahqae's sudden idea to pull this stunt in the Steel Tankard to try and get the Baaz to pay for drinks (The one I'm doing in the off time)

Haahqae thought up the idea while he was talking to the barkeeper at the High Hand Inn, when he discovered that Baaz weren't paying for drinks anywhere in the city. His reasons for the act were twofold. Firstly, it's because his declarations of being a all around good guy are partially true, and he feels bad that he talked the Baaz into not paying for drinks and he wants to make amends. Secondly his new found greed has come up with the idea that he won't be able to procure drinks for his performance unless the soldiers start paying for drinks, and if his plan should work and the baaz start paying for their drinks again, then the innkeepers should have no reason to deny him drinks at the performance. This would of course be good, as an extra source of profit from the event and as a boost to customer relations.

I don't always like posting his reasons in my posts partially due to *classified*. However it might pay for me to more often post them however, as it appears that you forgot why Haahqae's been so determined to get money last year (and never before then).

And Haahqae is as likely as not to remind Tulbas about his commitment to his show before the event, because Tulbas seemed very uninterested in it. Haahqae might have shared his opinion once, striving towards the acquisition of knowledge/new spells as the primary focus of that conversation instead of the cash from the performance, if not for his budding feelings of greed. (This had made that conversion between them rather awkward, Tulbas was constantly trying to steer it towards exchanging spells and sidelining Haahqae's performance, Haahqae was constantly trying to steer it towards the performance and sidelining learning the spells). If Haahqae gathers up the courage to talk to Ismene/invite her to the event, then he'll likely take the time to ask Tulbas for help, and if he has the idea to ask Tulbas for help, the half-elf might convince him to go talk to Ismene and invite her to the event. There however is a healthy chance that he'll skip both, as he'd like to get to 3 daily advertisements at different inns for each of the other days, not just the pitiful 1 he got in on the first day.

@Tulbas
Usually you're good at posting frequently and you did give some warning (one or two days notice), but I felt like it happened something like this:
Haahqae's just gone through a significant amount of character development; taking his life into his own hands and forming his own plans instead of trying to help out the poorer people. He's become more greedy and he's feeling betrayed by (most) of the group that he did the last quest with. With his new resolve he decides that he wants to plan a heist, and the best way to get information on where the baaz keep their money is by earning their trust with his dazzling joggling skills. Then Tulbas shows up and says "Hi Haahqae, I want to talk to you." And then announces in the vacations thread that he's going to be gone for 2 days or so. Haahqae's all ready to leave the tavern and start planning out his new performance/heist, but now I don't want him to leave the tavern because Tulbas is there specifically to talk with Haahqae, and leaving him behind would be rude and not in character for Haahqae. Which sort of meant the energy I put into all of his character development + planning got to sit and stew for what turned out to be 3 days, when I was most ready to post. Really, not a bad on your end, just unfortunate that you had to leave when I was most ready to post frequently.

[TristenC]

Caught up reading. Grubnick would like to get the info about the sewer trip from the others, and if he learns it will help find the women who stole their take from the Belzor quest he'll offer to pitch in without revealing his nature as a priest to the rogue group.

[Haahque]

It'd be great to have a reminder of how to bathe (I assume the Steel Tankard doesn't have facilities).
Are there public bathhouses?
Could Haahqae use a bath in a higher-end inn without having to rent a room for the night? (Perhaps at a fee)

[JadedDM]

Sadly, the only bathhouse in the city is in the noble district, which is quite restricted to most of the player characters.

However, most of the nicer inns do have baths (the Ivy, the Seven Centaurs, and the Masked Dragon). Their cost varies, but it's usually under a silver piece. And you don't have to have a room there, but you get priority if you do.

[Chris1234]

Is there a river? Maybe near a mill? Or even a pond?
So far Shima is several masterwork weapons down on what he entered the city with and hasn't seen even a CP of loot or employment as of yet.. So washing, while important, is less so than the propect of eating in a week or so's time, hence the query about rivers and so forth..

[JadedDM]

There is a river on the north side of the city (hence the docks and the harbor district). It is, however, below zero temperatures outside. So have fun with that.