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Re: LSO OOC Thread II

Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 7:29 am
by Breila
I'be been trying to be creative with cantrips to let Ouragana be less helpless in battle. Do you think it's going in the right direction?

Re: LSO OOC Thread II

Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 12:32 pm
by JadedDM
I suppose it depends on in what capacity you want her to be 'less helpless' in battle. What role do you see Ouragana holding in battle? Jocelyn focuses on healing and buffing while Val and Baeros are more focused on frontline melee, for instance.

Mages themselves are incredibly versatile, and can fill almost any role in battle. They can buff (increase the party's fighting ability), debuff (decrease the enemy's fighting ability), crowd control (disable/distract multiple minor enemies so the party isn't overwhelmed), and nuke (cause massive damage), among other things. Except for nuking (as she has no damaging spells at all), Ouragana can fulfill any of those roles.

Buff - Shield (only on herself, though), Invisibility
Debuff - Continual Light (if used to blind), Irritation, Silence (if used on casters)
Crowd Control - Sleep, Grease, Web

The rest of her spells I would classify as 'utility' which means they aren't generally useful in combat (Alligator's Tears, Dancing Lights, Detect Magic, Featherfall, Jump, Mending, Read Magic). There can be exceptions to that, of course (using Featherfall to stop a volley of approaching arrows, for instance).

My advice would be to focus on buffing, debuffing and crowd control, since Ouragana is morally opposed to dealing damage. In this way, she can be useful to the party in battle by making them more effective (or the enemy less effective).

You can continue to expand your spell list to include more of these kinds of spells. Once you hit level 5, you get access to some really good ones (Dispel Magic, Fly, Gust of Wind, Haste, Hold Person, Hold Undead, Monster Summoning I, Protection from Normal Missiles, Slow, etc.). Acquiring magical items like wands and scrolls can really help in that area, too, so you don't have to worry so much about running out of spells.

I don't think cantrips themselves are the answer. They are really meant for when you have no other options available. They are designed to be fairly useless, being even weaker than level 1 spells. Building her around cantrip use would be like having a fighter who specialized in daggers. There's nothing really wrong with it, per se, but it kind of wastes the character's potential.

Another role to consider, if you have the head for it, is battle tactician. In a fight, each party member tends to just do their own thing, without any coordination. As Ouragana is not 'in the thick of it,' usually standing in the back, she can keep an eye on the battlefield itself and shout out advice or warnings to the others when needed. Or coming up with a plan beforehand, picking a battle site, making good use of the terrain and so forth (assuming the party isn't surprised, that is).

Re: LSO OOC Thread II

Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2015 10:35 am
by Breila
I was more concerned about what she did after she had used all her useful spells. She has, for the moment, only five spells per day, which means she is "out of ammo" after five rounds of fighting...
Letting her direct the group in battle is a good idea in principle, but there are two obstacles. One is in-character, her voice is so weak that she can't be heard (but that could be remedied by a suitable magic device, I guess). The other is my own inability in planning a battle, I'm no strategist at all. I'm reacting to what is thrown at me, not planning.

Re: LSO OOC Thread II

Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2015 11:36 am
by JadedDM
Hmm, so you feel she would be improved with more spell slots? There is a way to do that, aside from simple leveling up, that is. Are you familiar with a Ring of Wizardry? When worn by a wizard, they increase your spell slots, allowing you to memorize more spells.

Re: LSO OOC Thread II

Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2015 11:51 am
by Nuke
and besides, Val prolly wouldn't listen in the heat of the moment anyway :roll:

Re: LSO OOC Thread II

Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 11:42 am
by Breila
A Ring of Wizardry would indeed be useful. With as few spells as a beginning wizard has, it's difficult to decide when to use them at best advantqage. In the beginning of a battle, to bring help a quick voctory? or save them for critical situations? Also, a longer battle becomes boring when there is nothing the character can really do.

Re: LSO OOC Thread II

Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 11:57 pm
by BishGada
High level wizards are very very powerful compared to... well everything. Taking the path of wizards is a risk those with great sense of exploration and ambitions take.

Having said that, although low level wizards are weak, they are still more qualified to battle than peasant. And peasants can fight when the need arises.
Once spells are used, you still haven't used up all your wits. You can distract, help other characters, use throwing daggers, darts and sling. You can oversee the situation (as JadedDM suggested) and give guidance and warnings to the others whom are too busy getting hacked by bad bad monsters! :)

Moreover there is the usage of magic items. And there are a lot of spells that boost the wizard up, like mirror image, armor, shield, Vampiric touch and many others. (I think there is some magic works similar to potion of heroism in the sense that it adds up HP above your max and those are taken first).
And many spells can be used in creative way, not obvious by their description. Like summoning a steed in the way of a charging fighter which will ruin the charge, or using your Web to create a form of catapult (I'm not REALLY think it is practical. :) but consider this, you can cast the web over a staff and use it as dust cleaner)

Also you can consider the time that spells last. Some spells have very long duration and using them in some ways can give you the benefit even if you didn't cast them at the same battle. (Continual light/darkness, Charm person, Armor again).
Maybe as a Storm wizard you can think of some special spells that come as a natural gifts (free magic slots) (If JadedDM will allow it) such as creating mists, small spraks of lightning and in higher levels call upon whether.

And when you start with a weak character, every level you advance is a major leap ahead, accompanied with a lot of satisfaction.

It is challenging but worth it.

And if you really have nothing to do and would like it you can roll for Takit and Hopper if you like :)

Re: LSO OOC Thread II

Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 8:25 am
by spyguy1503
JadedDM wrote:Ouragana is morally opposed to dealing damage.
I don't think daggers darts and sling would work for her.

Re: LSO OOC Thread II

Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 1:17 am
by Breila
Thanks everybody for your advice. Ouragana is the first mage I play, and I wanted her to be a complex character and not simply someone who throws magic missiles around.
And even if she could, during the first levels, there are only a few each day. I must say I would like an intelligence bonus for mages simliar to the wisdom bonus for clerics to boost their power. It's hard to keep a low-level mage alive without being a coward!

As for her oppsition to dealing damage, that is somehting she has learned she can't be 100% strict about if she wants to survive...

Re: LSO OOC Thread II

Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 2:32 am
by JadedDM
Technically, wasn't Kim the first mage you played?

Anyway, I know some games do house rule in an INT bonus for spells, similar to how clerics get a WIS bonus. This usually solves the problem of low-level mages being too weak. But, the problem with it is that it mages high-level mages even more powerful, and they are pretty ridiculously powerful to begin with.

Something to consider is maybe a kit? I have no idea what kind, though. I suppose it would depend on the direction you want to take her.

Re: LSO OOC Thread II

Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 7:33 am
by Breila
You're right, Jaded, but Kim became a NPC quite soon, so I forgot about that.

There is really no direction I want to take her, I rather love how she and I are learning to deal with her life's challenge.

BTW, I had her react violently when she discovered that the mage's guild judged canditates on their pedigree, but that is because she thinks that it's not a persons ancestry but their capabilities that should count. But she is interested in her ancestry, and she will certainly try to get it magically revealed at some point. Though she doubts she will be able to get it from headmaster Ozpin.

Re: LSO OOC Thread II

Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 4:01 pm
by JadedDM
Breila wrote:Though she doubts she will be able to get it from headmaster Ozpin.
Why is that?

Re: LSO OOC Thread II

Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 6:26 am
by Breila
Well, I guess a simple student can't go up to the headmaster of the academy and ask him? The institurion seemed to be quite hierarchical.

Re: LSO OOC Thread II

Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 10:18 am
by JadedDM
Sure, but she's not a student anymore. She's a journeyman mage, on the cusp of becoming a master.

Re: LSO OOC Thread II

Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 1:43 pm
by Breila
The way she's been treated by her former mentor, and her general feelings of inadequacy don't make her think she could approach the headmaster by herself.