LSO OOC Thread III

[BishGada]

And that was patient Baeros. If it would took you few minutes more you would have seen impatient Baeros storms with four guns in his hands. And probably die punctured by dozens of arrows on the doorway.

[JadedDM]

Okay, XP is up. I'll get my notes up soon, as well, and the new chapter after that.

A few things, though:

Jocelyn has surpassed the 40,000 XP mark needed to end the second arc. Now just got to get everyone else to that point, as well. One more chapter should do it, and then the arc is over. Thank goodness; after three years, I could use a break.

Ouragana only needs around 2,000 XP to reach the goal. That shouldn't be an issue.

Val needs a little more than 4,000 XP to reach the goal. That could be tricky, but maybe if I can come up with a big enough boss for the end of that dungeon...in any case, she also reached level 6. I rolled a 7 for HP, so 7+1 = 8. That brings her total up to 37.

Baeros needs a little under 2,000 XP to reach the goal. I think we can manage that. I rolled a 10 for HP, so 10+1 = 11. That brings his total up to 47.

Gallath needs a little over 5,000 XP to reach the goal. That's pretty steep, but the reason he fell so far behind is because his player has been largely inactive lately. Assuming spyguy starts posting more regularly again, it should be possible to get him caught up, especially with the whole Penta/Naishe sub-plot and the Sable thing going on, he could earn some good roleplay XP that way. Maybe if I can find an excuse for him to use his thief skills frequently, as well.

Dahn/Grey/Granite needs less than 5,000 XP to reach the goal. But, uh, that's probably not going to happen. Xelphyn hasn't logged since January, so he's probably not coming back (or if he does, it will be two years later again). In fact, I'm going to go ahead and just remove him from the roster.

Drav needs a little over 3,000 XP. That should be doable, if his player returns (chese hasn't made an in-character post in two months now). If he posts regularly in the next chapter and really roleplays like crazy instead of being the silent loner type, he might make it. He also leveled up. I rolled a 2 for his HP, which divided by 2 is 1, so his HP increases from 28 to 29.

Naras needs little more than 4,000 XP. Actually, about the same as Val. So...again, maybe with a really big boss...

This means the party 'average' XP is 37,300 now that I've removed Dahn from the roster. So really, really close.

[Chris1234]

Well sorry you need a break, and understand, but I will miss this one. You're a good story teller.
Typically how long is 'a break' likely to be?

[BishGada]

Baeros got max HP! Yeepee yey! That kinda brings him back from near death.

[JadedDM]

Typically how long is 'a break' likely to be?

Well, the gap between the first and second arc lasted less than two weeks. Of course, all of that time was actually spent working on the next arc. So I would assume this time will be similar.

Baeros got max HP! Yeepee yey!

Should prove useful the next time he charges into a hail of bullets.

My notes on the last chapter:

Title and Theme
The title of this chapter, "Homecoming" is mostly a reference to Jocelyn returning to her hometown of Enott. I admit, when we started this chapter, there was a part of me that was worried we wouldn't actually make it to Enott before it ended, which would make the title seem very strange, indeed. Luckily, that wasn't the case.

Diplomacy vs. Violence
A big theme of this game so far has been 'diplomacy vs. violence.' This started with the very first quest, when the party had to decide whether to make peace with the aarakocra or wipe them out as they had been paid to do. It wasn't originally a theme I had in mind at the time, but it sort of kept cropping up--like when Ouragana refused to fight the mad tribals, or the party tried to stop the fighting in Mond without just picking a side and killing the other.

This has also tied in with Jocelyn's own characterization quite a bit. The original character was pitched as someone who tries to be a good cleric of Octhanus, but isn't very good at it. She's grown over time, though and has started choosing more peaceful options each time. She wished to free the oni, decided to not just let the Bullring murder her enemies for her, voted to get rid of the cannon of light, and even now decided to deal with the slavers instead of busting in and fighting.

Since dealing with the Poison Curse is the crux of this arc, deciding to do so peacefully was a big turning point for her (even if it did take a literal messenger from her goddess to point it out to her ). Assuming the party sticks with it, it will have a dramatic effect on the ending, to say the least.

Penta vs Naishe
Likewise, Penta and Naishe are opposites. One is Lawful, the other is Chaotic. One is selfless, the other selfish. One is uptight, the other easy-going. One is part angel, the other part demon. One's a paladin, one's a thief. One hunts demons, one is a demonic. I could go on and on.

The setup was mostly for Gallath to choose a henchman, since I knew spyguy was keen on that. He can only choose one by snubbing the other, though. For now, at least, seems like he's made his choice. It seems, interestingly enough, the rest of the party made their own choice on who to accept as telling the truth. (Although Baeros seems convinced still she is a demon, he doesn't seem terribly worried or upset by the idea.)

And Now for Something Completely Different...
The undine appearing were just a random encounter I rolled. There originally was no quest involved with them. (Indeed, looking back, it seems weird that they were playfully frolicking in the water right after being attacked, with their leadership either kidnapped or unconscious). But I just built on things, essentially making stuff up as I went when it became clear that Naras wanted to help them.

Neither she or Val have any interest or investment in the current storyline, and it occurred to me they likely wouldn't have much to do anyway, since Jocelyn decided on the peaceful route. Neither is a diplomat or particularly peaceful (indeed, along with Baeros, they are among the most violent of the party members). So even though it means doubling my work load, I whipped up a quest to keep them occupied underwater in the meantime. Since the PCs will all split up at the end of the arc anyway, it doesn't matter that they are already separated.

Naras did come awfully close to pissing off Serenna there, though, that she nearly rejected the quest. So much so that I had to point it out OOC. Well, like I said...she's no diplomat.

In any case, I had originally planned on this game being largely seafaring in nature and eventually making trips underwater commonplace (that's what I did with my last Octhanian game, anyway). So this was a good prologue to Meer, if nothing else.

Weapon of Magical Destruction
One of the big plot twists was that the cannon of light that the party had fought to acquire turned out to be far more dangerous than any of them could have fathomed. It was capable of wiping out small villages with a single shot. This was largely a moral dilemma to test the PCs' ethics. Whether Sierra kept the cannon or not wouldn't affect the party itself, for the most part. Although either choice made would have consequences down the road.

Hive of Scum and Villainy
We've never visited Draska before, and it is quite different from the other islands we've been to. Draska is a plutocracy, where whoever has the most gold calls the shot. There's a massive wealth gap, where most of the money is held by a small minority. Consequently, most people have to do some pretty awful things just to survive. The party's reactions are interesting, so far.

The stabbed man who ran out of the inn was quite upsetting for Baeros, who felt the party should help him. However, he had no idea why the man was stabbed or why he was being chased. The others didn't really react, perhaps just accepting that was how things were here or perhaps realizing that if they stopped to intervene with every crime they saw, they'd never get anything done.

The poor state of affairs was also further shown in the encounter on the streets with Baeros. The party hasn't had a chance to react yet, but after searching them it was discovered that one of them was at risk for being sold into slavery and two others had families. They were so desperate for coin, they were willing to try and rob well-armed strangers. It was also pretty clear they had no idea what they were doing, either. The reason they were following the party was they weren't sure how to proceed and when Baeros confronted them, they were caught off guard. Their actual attempt to get his money was pathetic ('uh, we're the tax collectors, yeah'). And they didn't draw their guns until Baeros drew his swords and literally threatened their lives. They went down so easily because they were only level 1. In other words, they were completely over their heads.

Kind of makes you wonder what will happen to their families...

Raven's Orphanage
Raven and his orphanage were part of Jocelyn's backstory, so I felt it fitting they be included. Mostly as a means to make contact with the Poison Curse, but also to squeeze in one more quest for some extra XP. The orphanage also helped further highlight what an awful place Draska is. Children are particularly a burden in such a place, and it's not like the orphanage is government sponsored. So Raven must train them and then basically sell them like slaves just to keep the place running. It's cruel and terrible, but the children are actually better off than if they were left to run the streets. At least they get fed and taught how to survive. (An Octhanian orphanage would run on donations, but in a place like this, the poor have nothing to give and the rich don't care.)

The Bloody Chains
Slavery is an important aspect of Draska's economy. Most people are placed in slavery to pay off debts. The reason so many people are in debt is that the rich make the laws, and so constantly increase taxes on the poor while removing taxes on themselves. Eventually the various slavery guilds came together and formed the Slavers' Syndicate. The Bloody Chains are just one faction within the syndicate.

Divine Favor
Something I did with War of the Lance was the idea of 'divine favor.' It basically means that your actions can earn you favor with various deities. I've retroactively applied it to Lost Souls, and it's a pretty accurate way to measure things like alignment and character growth.

There are only five gods in this setting, as opposed to the 21 in Dragonlance, so it's a bit simpler. Anyway, each time you do an act that pleases a god, you gain a point of favor from them. If you acquire five points, then that deity will contact you somehow--either through a priest or other servant, a messenger (angel, demon, etc.) or through a dream or vision, usually with the intention of encouraging you to walk their path. If you acquire 10 points, you get a henchman sent to you by that deity. At 15 points, you obtain a special power relevant to that deity. You can always choose to reject a god's gift, though, at any level.

However, certain gods are opposed to each other and cancel each other out. One example is Octhanus and Renos. So if you gain 5 points in Octhanus and 3 points in Renos, you really just have 2 points in Octhanus. This applies with Gonto and Crizza, too.

The way you earn favor is by how you act.

Octhanus favors diplomacy, mercy, helping others without payment, love and family, compassion and so forth.
Renos favors intimidation, violence as the first or only option, vengeance, greed, war, selfishness and so forth.
Gonto favors abiding by the rules, doing what is expected of you, telling the truth, promoting civilization, using the system, etc.
Crizza favors breaking the rules, following your own path, lying, promoting freedom, bypassing or breaking the system, etc.
Rabbah favors not getting involved, not taking sides, and basically stuff that adventurers don't do (so earning Rabbah points is pretty hard and not really worth it).

So far, the only people to reach 5 points have been Jocelyn and Ouragana (both in Octhanus). And so the planetar they rescued spoke directly to them, trying to encourage their character development (encouraging Jocelyn to try peaceful solutions and Ouragana to have more confidence). That was their messenger, urging them to continue walking the path of Octhanus.

But after this session, Ouragana has managed to reach 10 points in Octhanus. So a henchman will be sent to her. She can, of course, choose to reject them once they arrive. (Not sure I'll be able to deliver them before the arc ends, but we'll see.) So my question to Breila is, what do you think would be more useful to Ouragana? A healer, a bodyguard or a diplomat?

Anyway, I'll get the new chapter up soon. If there is any feedback, questions, etc., just let me know.

[Breila]

Hi Jaded, it's fun that you brought up the subject of a henchman. Actually, what Ouragana had in mind - and will bring up with Jocelyn in their next conversation, OOC if we have to - is now that she has paid for the slave girl, she will want to keep her and train her as handmaid. If she's intelligent enough to become a mage, give her the choice of finding a new employer at their next stop or stay with Ouragana as apprentice. (If she's not intelligent enough, she would still be free to seek employment as a maid somewhere.)
As for a henchman (or -woman)... both a healer or a bodyguard would come in handy. I guess Ouragana is on the path of becoming a diplomat herself.

[Nuke]

Well, it was an interesting chapter. It did demonstrate how ill-equipped we are in general to deal with the increase in power of our foes.

Val was near death too many times, but I suppose she is used to it by now. Sometimes she bears the brunt of the whole non-violent, goody two shoes thing. I vote for a healer for Ouragana's henchman!

The other thing I noticed was the lack of communication possible underwater, that is something we are gonna need to figure out.

As for the undine quest, what was the loot??

[JadedDM]

Okay. Then it's possible Breila may wind up with two henchman (her CHA allows her a lifetime limit of 4 total).

As for the undine quest, what was the loot??

Let's find out. I'll put up the new chapter now.

[BishGada]

(Although Baeros seems convinced still she is a demon, he doesn't seem terribly worried or upset by the idea.)

Baeros doesn't linger over issues. He can argue passionately about some subject but then after short while leave it and forget it.

I was very disappointed at disposing the Cannon. It seems unwise and what did we risked ourselves for?

I also didn't expect we will save only the girl after we discovered there are more slaves...

About killing the robbers... Hmm... well... I got the intent to give Baeros pangs of conscience already at the post for searching the bodies.
Baeros started with them meaning well. They were after money and he offered them a job. They threatened the group and he didn't take it well.

Besides that it was interesting chapter. Especially Panta vs. Naishe but also learning new stuff about Jocelyn background, the splitting of the group and meeting guns...

[JadedDM]

I was very disappointed at disposing the Cannon. It seems unwise and what did we risked ourselves for?

Evidently, a crap ton of gold and a small cache of magical items. (Remember that with the exception of Naras, each of you has around 6,000 GP in the Bullring's cargo hold.)

I also didn't expect we will save only the girl after we discovered there are more slaves...

There are hundreds of slaves in the town; thousands upon the island. How many do you free? Which ones get priority? Even if you free every slave on the island, what's to stop the slavers from just acquiring more?

It's a complicated issue and there is no easy solution.

They were after money and he offered them a job.

Not everyone is an adventurer. Most regular people would consider the sort of work the party does insane or even suicidal. But besides that, they were locals. Unlike Baeros, they understood how things are done on this island. They recognized that even if they survived an assault on a warehouse owned by one of the most powerful slaver groups, some other big slaver group would come along to finish them off. Plus, it's not like every single Bloody Chain member was in that warehouse. That was just the Enott branch. So even if you wiped out 100% of the slavers inside, the other members of the guild would come after you. Imagine that irony: after finally stopping the Poison Curse from trying to kill Jocelyn, now the Bloody Chains were gunning for you.

I sort of get the impression, though, that Baeros has a very simplistic worldview--very black and white. I also get the impression that he doesn't really consider the long term consequences of his actions. Like, if he had rushed the warehouse and killed all of the slavers, did he know what he was going to do with the slaves?

(Something like that happened once in another game of mine, years and years ago. The party came across a group of slavers in the wild. They were herding some slaves to the next city to sell on the market. So the party, being 'good guys' attacked and killed every single slaver. They released the slaves, told them 'good luck' with their new lives and prepared to move on. I stopped them short when I say, "What about the slaves?"

"They're free now," the players objected, not following.

"They've been raised as slaves since birth. They know no other way of life. Also, they're unarmed, penniless and have no combat skills. You're leaving them in the middle of the wilderness with no idea of where to go. If they don't die of starvation or get killed by wandering monsters, most likely they'll just wind up being taken by some other group of slavers."

The players were lost on what to do. They hadn't planned that far ahead. They weren't ready to take responsibility for the slaves. In their minds, they 'did the right thing' and all that was left was to just continue forward to the next town/dungeon/wilderness area. They expected the slaves to just disappear into the ether, never to be seen again.

So they were forced to deal with the consequences of their actions and figure out how to actually help these people. It became a new plot line, in fact.

The point being, is that morality is complicated and messy in the real world, and it's the same way in my own game worlds, too.)

They threatened the group and he didn't take it well.

I would point out that the three would-be thieves only pulled out their guns on the party after Baeros drew his swords and threatened to kill them. And even they, they only fired the guns once Baeros started his attack.

[BishGada]

Cannon/Gold: Cannon would serve their purpose. They knew it all along. I was especially amazed that Sierra and Terra played along. As they are all the time in the seas with merchant and might be robbed such a weapon would give them deterrence and therefore reduce the risks, increase their business etc. All the talks about someone in the crew that will betray them seems too much in my opinion...

About saving the slaves, Baeros indeed doesn't think ahead or have globally analyzed the situation (You are correct about his simplistic view). He just act to what he sees in his whereabouts and if he sees a stabbed person or bunch of slaves in need he would like to help. It doesn't mean he doesn't make a lot of mistakes, and given his INT he doesn't learn a lot from experience.

About the locals situation, well, Baeros only threatened them trying to intimidate them and show he won't fold. He didn't draw his swords just was ready if they act. And even if his swords were drawn, he discussed with Brock entering the warehouse after that so if they would have just say 'sorry' instead of aiming their guns and obviously escalating the situation, they would have been saved.

[JadedDM]

About the locals situation, well, Baeros only threatened them trying to intimidate them and show he won't fold. He didn't draw his swords just was ready if they act. And even if his swords were drawn, he discussed with Brock entering the warehouse after that so if they would have just say 'sorry' instead of aiming their guns and obviously escalating the situation, they would have been saved.

But he did draw his swords:

"I've paid the tax at the orphanage house. You can ask my steel." He draws his swords ready for fight with a wicked almost crazy smile

This caused them to back off a bit.

"Whoa, easy now," the dwarf, says taking a step back. "The warehouse? That belongs to the Bloody Chains, one of the most powerful factions of the Slaver's Syndicate. Nobody messes with them, not unless they want to wind up as slaves themselves! They have a storm sorceress and a cleric of Renos on their side, so they can use magic to mind control their slaves and keep them in line. That's all I know, really!"

So not only did he make a threatening gesture, but he had, in your own words, 'a wicked, almost crazy smile' on his face. The thieves backed off, afraid. Then he offers the job, which sounded like suicide to them. This, combined with his 'wicked, almost crazy smile' convinces them he's literally mad. They even called him barmy. They thought he was a madman at this point.

"I have a different idea! Why won't you let me show you how barmy I am by sticking these swords through your guts..." he threaten them ready to strike. "On the other hand, I know how can you help me..." He looks at Brock and says, "It's been a while... I'm ready to do something as soon as you think it is time."

So now this barmy madman threatens to kill them with his drawn swords. They are now afraid for their lives. This guy is crazy, and he can't be reasoned with. So they do the only logical thing they can think of--they draw their pistols in self-defense.

This seemed to work...on everyone else. The rest of the party backed down, recognizing they were beat. But Baeros charged at them anyway, much to their surprise.

If Baeros was only trying to intimidate them and nothing else, he went way too far with it. There's a line between intimidating someone enough to comply with your demands and convincing them you are on the verge of killing them and Baeros crossed it. They were convinced that the choice Baeros was offering them was either to die at his hands or die at the Bloody Chains' hands. At no point did he offer a third option to turn around and leave. So they felt they had no choice.

But honestly, I'm not sure arguing about it all will really make a difference. I don't think Baeros will ever realize any of this. In his mind, he (the good guy) killed the evil bad guys, making the world a better place. Thus he has nothing to justify to anyone, not even himself. The nuances of the situation are lost to him, and even if someone did point them out to him, I'm not sure he'd be willing to consider them.

Like you said, Baeros never seems to learn from his mistakes or grow from them.

[Chris1234]

How does "Defeating XX HD worth of enemies " work?

[JadedDM]

Warriors earn additional XP for defeating foes in combat, as specified in the DMG. They earn 10 XP per level for each HD defeated.

[BishGada]

Oh...
I initially planned to write that he partially draws his swords only showing somewhat of the blade while the rest in the scabbard. I guess I changed my mind. I also was sure that since island is swarming with outlaws they will use any opportunity that he shows weakness to take advantage and rob them. Didn't assume they will be smart enough to go on their way if that was offered...

I guess I started a ritual for Baeros to charge at the enemies without thinking. (since he doesn't learn from his mistakes.)