Is restoration really worth it?

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Re: Is restoration really worth it?

Postby lanir » Sun Jul 02, 2017 3:43 pm

Halaster-Blackcloak wrote:I think it was obvious and crystal clear that your original post summed up the fact that you thought that the restoration spell was put in as a lie and that it was intended to give the players a false sense of having choices when in fact there are no good choices when it comes to restoration. There's really no other way to interpret what you wrote.


Yes, there is. As I have already mentioned more than once my original reply was overstated. The other statements in the thread seemed to agree with what I was thinking. I replied off the cuff without taking the sort of time to parse my wording that I would have used had I realized they would be dissected in this antagonistic way. You then asked if you were reading it right and I corrected your interpretation to closer resemble my meaning.

If I mispeak, it is my responsibility to explain myself better. It is not my responsibility to make other people understand. There is a difference. The understanding of another person involves too many factors beyond my control. I can't crack open your head and put the pieces in the right places. I can only draw arrows and give you a map of where I'm going then wait to see if you meet me there. Even if you're really just on your way to somewhere else.

So I have to ask. Why are you still even talking about this? That's my big question to you and it overrides anything else we might say here because as I said, the original topic is resolved: you asked for an opinion about restoration and I gave one. We could talk about other things but if we are, why does this keep coming up?
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Re: Is restoration really worth it?

Postby Halaster-Blackcloak » Sun Jul 02, 2017 5:55 pm

Lanir whines on... :roll:

Yes, there is. As I have already mentioned more than once my original reply was overstated. The other statements in the thread seemed to agree with what I was thinking. I replied off the cuff without taking the sort of time to parse my wording that I would have used had I realized they would be dissected in this antagonistic way. You then asked if you were reading it right and I corrected your interpretation to closer resemble my meaning.


As usual, you expose your intellectual cowardice. I offered to ignore the poorly worded, unfounded, patently false claims you made in your original post and debate the facts. Instead you reply whining about how your posts were misinterpreted. :roll: It's not like I was playing an attorney and trying to twist your words into something that was not meant. Your words were clear. It's not my fault you fail when it comes to expressing yourself clearly. Take a writing class along with that required reading comprehension class.

If I mispeak, ..blah, blah, blah...


You didn't misspeak. You were very clear in what you said. Here's what happened in reality - you made both an insane claim (that the spell was put in as a lie to make PCs think they had options) and a provably false claim (that the restoration spell is not viable, you're screwed either way, etc). I called you on both, you got your ass handed to you, and now you don't like it. I've dealt with your type for a long, long time on the internet. Nothing new to see here. Just another loud mouth who can't back his claims.

So I have to ask. Why are you still even talking about this? That's my big question to you and it overrides anything else we might say here because as I said, the original topic is resolved: you asked for an opinion about restoration and I gave one. We could talk about other things but if we are, why does this keep coming up?


What I find interesting is that you weren't so eager duck out like that earlier on while I allowed you to babble on and on with your nonsense. You wanted to keep arguing, mainly semantics. Now, when you're backed into a corner and given the options of putting up or shutting up, you choose to shut up. You didn't just "give your opinion" in your original post. You made both a crazy claim and a false claim. You could have just left it at "I don't think the spell is worth it", but then you delved into all that bat-shit crazy conspiracy theory nonsense and the idiotic claim that the spell is "not viable".

Bottom line, you're intellectually bankrupt. You had plenty of chances to back your crazy, incorrect claims and you choose to run instead. That's fine. That's what people do when they can't back their claims - they run and make excuses when their claims get shot down. Most of this, of course, stems from your complete ignorance of the AD&D system.

As I said before, AD&D is your daddy's game, and you can't manage to put on your big boy pants and learn the system. You had problems with the alignment system ("it's annoying" :roll: ), claiming it does not work and should be "chucked out the window" because it "causes so many problems", but failing to back that absurd claim. Considering it works just fine for me and millions of other DMs, it makes you look foolish to claim it.

For further proof of you being an intellectual featherweight and a slacker, I will point out this thread:

http://www.padnd.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=3748&p=41306&hilit=lanir#p41306

You wrote TL:DR (too long, didn't read) because you could not be bothered to read the 4 short posts before your response, all 4 of which constituted a combined total of 16 mainly short sentences - the equivalent of a short paragraph. Can we say ADD, as opposed to AD&D? You're intellectually lazy. Period.

And of course, let's not forget the gem you wrote asking whether level drains "remove memories of past lives". :roll: Yeah, there's someone who knows the rules. :roll: I might as well be discussing this with a corpse.

Then you whined about having shitty players who claim to be Good while murdering and pillaging. And about how religion in the game offends you. And of course you had no idea which undead have memories of their previous life intact. And let's not forget the touchy-feely whining about how the PCs won't just go to the evil orcs and demand they hand over the individual thieves and goods they stole. You whine about religion being "forced on you" in the game, yet you don't mind forcing your real world liberal socialist kumbayah woo-woo into the game. :roll: And lest you neglect addressing classes in the game, you proved your ignorance by claiming that the entire wizard class is broken! :roll: Try telling that to all my players who successfully raised wizards from 1st to 18th level. Let's not forget your whining about how "AD&D has too many stats". And not wanting to stop with just your insane claim about the designers putting in restoration as a lie and how they used it to deceive and allow DMs to deceive their players, you made another wild crazy claim that "the designers are lying to me" because you don't like how level limits work.

Gygax and his damned game designers really "screwed you over", didn't they? Poor snowflake. Go find a safe space, pull out your risk-free 3E garbage, cuddle up in a warm blanket and pet your therapy animal. The hurt will go away soon. Maybe you can touch your teddy bear to show the counselor exactly where those horrible, deceptive, evil, lying game designers hurt you. :roll:

You admit to never having played 1E. You admit you've never gone beyond 5th level in 2E. But somehow you think you're entitled to an opinion. You're not entitled to an opinion. You have neither the experience, nor the intelligence, nor the integrity to comment on AD&D. If I sound harsh, it's because I have to be harsh with people like you. You're a walking, talking, inexperienced bundle of narcissism that thinks it knows something about a game you have little to no experience with and even less understanding of. Now go play your modern kiddie games and stop pretending you have anything worth saying. You bore me.
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Re: Is restoration really worth it?

Postby lanir » Mon Jul 03, 2017 2:09 am

If you really can't let it go then let me dismantle your arguments one last time.

You have said I am lying about how restoration works and that lies are deliberate. You also have said I don't understand the spell and what it does. These statements argue opposite perspectives, that I both know and do not know how this spell works. I can't lie from knowledge and not know the spell at the same time. Which of your accusations is false and which is true?

From another perspective, you have argued that I was lying in my original statement and that I have lied about it ever since. I have said that I could have used better language and you misunderstood me. You have said my following statements about this are nothing but lies. To what aim? I say I worded it poorly and you say I'm lying about everything. You are trying to make your accusations about my intent outweigh my statement about my wording. One is clearly simpler than the other and extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. Where is yours?

You argue that I have said the spell does not cure level drains and there is no other possible way to read it. This is not correct.

Lanir wrote:But because it's there a DM (or the game designers) can be dishonest and say there's a way around level draining. They just don't bother to correct the inherent assumption that because there is an option it's designed to be a viable one.


The first sentence references "level draining". While I certainly could have worded it better, the idea of a crystal clear narrative of a spell that does nothing falls apart in the second sentence. "They" refers to "a DM (or the game designers)" from the previous sentence. And "there is an option" references level draining from the previous sentence. There cannot be an option if it does not do something about the level draining. This directly contradicts the narrative you are fixated on that would have me saying otherwise. Could you have read it another way? Sure! It's just text and lacking in many cues you'd otherwise receive. But your claim depends on your way being the only possible way to read what I wrote and it is not.

As for the word "viable", it is an expression of opinion because it depends on what outcomes you seek. Your original post did not use this word but it also asked whether this spell should be in the game. In essence, you asked whether it was a "viable" part of the game. With that as your opening statement, exploring whether it works well or not is part of the context you set. Where along the way did the conversation change for you so that was no longer part of the question? What was this newly oriented conversation about and where did you clearly state the changed topic? I have mentioned you departing the topic many times and you never answer, you just repeat the same accusations I debunk above.

You now tell me I did not "misspeak" when I say I could have worded things better, and then continue your false narrative from above. As with much of your previous posts in this thread you would have it that you are the expert in what I mean where I am not. This is so ridiculous it does not require a specific rebuttal. To make the claim itself is to openly deny any attempt at communication and devolve into false narratives and blatant lies. You misread my original reply and that is something I can take some accountability for. But continuing to misrepresent me after being corrected is a willful act that doesn't even have anything to do with me.

In this atmosphere you've created you have graciously offered to allow me to retreat, to remove my agency from what I have said and put my approval on the false narrative you have built. One where your words speak more about what I say than mine do. I have respectfully declined your kind offer. Instead, I asked you why you still wanted to bring up my first comment to begin with.

And finally there's more of the insults. It's here that I have the answer to my question about why we're still talking about this. You weren't trying to have a civil debate of any sort, you're just trolling. The moment I chose not to quietly accept your narrative you went back to this. Your claims here are obvious, self-serving, and petty but I guess I should add that they're all wrong in case anyone else reads your rant.

[quote=Halaster-Blackcloak"]You're not entitled to an opinion.[/quote]

Here you finally admit to what you've been leading up to all along. You asked for an opinion and I gave you one you didn't like. If the reasons you give for continuing this screed were correct, you could have stopped the first time I told you I meant something different than what you thought when you read my first comment. You could have acknowledged that you'd found what you were looking for when I said my first comment was overstated, or later when I said I misspoke or used poor word choices. But none of that would have given you the excuse to say this, to say it repeatedly before now in crude attempts to insult me throughout this thread.

This is why you are so determined to hand me a script where I defend a position I never held, do not hold, nor have any interest in. This is why you are a troll. And this is why I am leaving you to your bitterness and made-up stories. I'm just not leaving you with your transparent illusions about it.
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Re: Is restoration really worth it?

Postby Halaster-Blackcloak » Mon Jul 03, 2017 3:59 am

Maybe it's OCD? :roll:

Actually, I think you're just a glutton for punishment. So be it. :twisted:

If you really can't let it go then let me dismantle your arguments one last time


That's like a kindergarten student threatening to refute a professor's theory, but what the hell? This could potentially be entertaining! :pop:

Eh. It'll probably be more like a re-run as I school you once again. :roll:

You have said I am lying about how restoration works and that lies are deliberate. You also have said I don't understand the spell and what it does. These statements argue opposite perspectives, that I both know and do not know how this spell works. I can't lie from knowledge and not know the spell at the same time. Which of your accusations is false and which is true?


Your reading comprehension skills are sorely lacking, son. Please go take some courses or classes or something. I never said you lied about restoration. I said you were wrong about restoration. I know this is a lot for you to absorb, so I'll go slow. Being wrong and lying are two totally different things. You made the claim that the game designers were lying to you (this seems to be a recurring theme in your insane rants). Or did you forget you wrote that? No, don't tell me - that's not exactly what you meant - you're being misinterpreted again, is that it? :roll:

From another perspective, you have argued that I was lying in my original statement and that I have lied about it ever since.


Are you insane, or just illiterate? I mean that honestly and seriously. Because I never claimed that you lied in your original statement. What I actually said was that you meant what you wrote in your original statement - crazy conspiracy theories and all! Later, you made excuses and tried to twist your own words and claim you were being "misinterpreted". I almost feel sorry for you, what with those damned evil game designers lying to you about numerous things, and everyone else misinterpreting you. Must be a hard life. :roll:

Really, discussing anything with you is like a trip to the Cthulhu universe. All bizarre and twisted and painful to the mind due to its craziness.

I have said that I could have used better language and you misunderstood me. You have said my following statements about this are nothing but lies. To what aim? I say I worded it poorly and you say I'm lying about everything.


You didn't lie. I never said you did. Now go show me a quote where I said you lied. Go ahead, I mean that. Put up or shut up. If you cannot show a quote of me saying you lied, then you're an idiot and a fraud. I'm calling you out once and for all. You didn't word it poorly - that's just an excuse you're making because you cannot back your idiotic claims (the designers lied to you, they put the spell in as a lie, the spell is not viable, the players are screwed no matter what they do, etc).

You are trying to make your accusations about my intent outweigh my statement about my wording. One is clearly simpler than the other and extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. Where is yours?


I posted all my proofs about you. Try reading my replies and work on that reading comprehension. It'll take you far in life.

You argue that I have said the spell does not cure level drains and there is no other possible way to read it. This is not correct.


Moron, I will try to spell this out for you one last time. After that I'll have to resort to drawing freaking pictures for you! :roll:

You clearly said that the spell was put in as a lie and that the spell is "not viable". Do you remember typing those words? You did type them. And that is not true. The spell is in fact viable. Maybe your English language skills are as poor as your reading comprehension skills (or rather the lack thereof - hard to argue you have any skills at all in those areas!), because you clearly do not understand the definition of the word "viable".

On top of that, you did write:

It's never supposed to be used or make any sense.


Likewise, you wrote:

But because it's there a DM (or the game designers) can be dishonest and say there's a way around level draining.


I parsed that sentence and explained to you what it must mean as written. You seem to have some sort of thought disorder, because you can't seem to make sense of your own writings!

Finally, you said this:

The cure can kill you. This makes it a lousy option that is rarely, if ever, an appropriate solution. But it lets you claim there is some way to deal with level draining. Which is dishonest because in many situations it would not be worth it, which effectively means there is no cure.


Now that bit of poorly written, illogical verbiage tells us a lot. It tells us that you are confusing your dislike of the spell with poor game design (those words were uttered by you repeatedly, elsewhere) and viability. Your poorly written argument above basically says that the spell is so badly and deceptively designed so as to make the spell not viable. At least, that's what it means to any sane person with even minimal English writing skills and reading comprehension skills. What it means to you in your Cthulhu/Bizarro universe, I have no idea. I'm sure you'll claim you're being "misunderstood" again. :roll:

As for the word "viable", it is an expression of opinion because it depends on what outcomes you seek. Your original post did not use this word but it also asked whether this spell should be in the game. In essence, you asked whether it was a "viable" part of the game.


No, that's not what I asked, Mr. I Can't Even Understand Basic English. :roll: The word "viable" means "capable of working successfully". The restoration spell is indeed "capable of working successfully". Those are facts. What I actually asked was whether is was worth taking the spell, i.e. was it worth the risk or cost. That part is an opinion. You still cannot differentiate the two. :roll:

With that as your opening statement, exploring whether it works well or not is part of the context you set. Where along the way did the conversation change for you so that was no longer part of the question?


It didn't change. But I can see your ADD has kicked in again and you've lost track of your thoughts. Let's bring you back to reality here. Exploring whether or not the risk is worth it is one thing - opinion. Some people would rather not age 2 years and take a small risk of dying simply to restore a lost level. Others think the risk is a small price to pay. That was the original discussion. You were the one who made his opening statement on the matter claiming that the spell was put in as a lie and that it was dishonest and only gave the illusion of a choice. You confused personally not liking the risk with whether or not the spell was "viable". Really, this wouldn't be so hard if you'd quit putting words in my mouth that I never said and started owning up to the insane nonsense you've been spewing instead of whining about how "misinterpreted" you are. :roll:

What was this newly oriented conversation about and where did you clearly state the changed topic? I have mentioned you departing the topic many times and you never answer, you just repeat the same accusations I debunk above.


Son, I hate to burst your bubble, but the only thing you've ever "debunked" is the claim that you know anything about the rules or spirit of the AD&D game, or that you have any significant experience in playing it. And also any doubt as to whether you have the ability to engage in actual debate. We know you've debunked your ability to do that!

You now tell me I did not "misspeak" when I say I could have worded things better, and then continue your false narrative from above. As with much of your previous posts in this thread you would have it that you are the expert in what I mean where I am not. This is so ridiculous it does not require a specific rebuttal. To make the claim itself is to openly deny any attempt at communication and devolve into false narratives and blatant lies. You misread my original reply and that is something I can take some accountability for. But continuing to misrepresent me after being corrected is a willful act that doesn't even have anything to do with me.


I'm sure you think that sounded good. Must have taken you awhile to write it. :roll: Once again, you reply only to whine about how you're misinterpreted, to claim I'm saying things I've never said, and then to project your lies onto me, instead of addressing the actual issue. See, you're a bankrupt, intellectual coward who doesn't have anywhere near the skills required to back his crazy claims. And so you ignore that part and seek only to continue fighting over semantics. Dude, the game is over, you're exposed as a fraud. Now you're just embarrassing yourself.

I don't mind. :pop:

In this atmosphere you've created you have graciously offered to allow me to retreat, to remove my agency from what I have said and put my approval on the false narrative you have built. One where your words speak more about what I say than mine do. I have respectfully declined your kind offer. Instead, I asked you why you still wanted to bring up my first comment to begin with.


Did you ask someone to write that for you? Because to you, I'm sure it sounds all very well written. However, in reality it's nothing but extraneous verbiage. Mouth-babble. Blah, blah, blah. Hot air. It says nothing. "Remove your agency"! ROTFLMAO! You crack me up! So pretentious, but unable to say anything meaningful. So sad.

And finally there's more of the insults.


I can't help it that you're an idiot. Try not being one. Get a clue. I don't like idiots. Especially not ones who make crazy, false claims and who repeatedly put words in my mouth.

It's here that I have the answer to my question about why we're still talking about this. You weren't trying to have a civil debate of any sort, you're just trolling. The moment I chose not to quietly accept your narrative you went back to this.


Good lord, I'm gonna have to draw pictures for this moron after all! :roll:

I offered to ignore all your original idiotic nonsense about the game designers lying to players and being dishonest and putting in a spell that was not meant to be used...blah, blah, blah. I offered to look at the details of the spell and compare it to others in context of the game. You cannot do that because you're too stupid and too ignorant of the game and its rules. If the truth hurts, tough. If you had any interest in correcting yourself and presenting your side of the debate, I have offered you numerous posts which detail the spell itself, the logical breakdowns of it, logical analytical breakdowns of the restoration spell in relation to other spells in order to provide context, etc. You have avoided every effort to address those issues. Why? Because you don't know what the hell you're talking about. You don't have anywhere near the experience you try to pretend you have with playing AD&D (admitted in your own words - never played 1E, rarely played 2E, never played 2E past 5th level, prefer "modern" games to AD&D whenever possible, etc). You don't have the honesty and integrity to engage in honest debate. You don't have the mastery of English or reading comprehension skills needed to engage in debate. And logic? That's an alien concept to you.

Here you finally admit to what you've been leading up to all along. You asked for an opinion and I gave you one you didn't like.


Again, moron, it has nothing to do with whether I "like" your opinion. I don't care about anyone's opinion on the matter, yours least of all. I don't care whether you like or dislike the spell. That part is opinion. What I objected to, and I know this is going to go over your head once again :roll: , were your insane, idiotic claims that the spell was put in as a lie, that it was not an honest solution to level drains, that the spell was "not viable" and that the PCs were "screwed no matter what they did". Those were all crazy, false claims. It had nothing to do with "not liking your opinion". When I said you were not entitled to an opinion - and please, moron, try taking that damned reading comprehension class I warned you about! - it was because:

1. You demonstrated (and admitted to!) a very serious lack of experience with the AD&D game system
2. You demonstrated a lack of understanding of the design and spirit of the game
3. You demonstrated your ignorance by repeatedly posting things that highlighted your ignorance ("doesn't level drain remove memories of a past life?") of the rules
4. You demonstrated a lack of command of the English language
5. You demonstrated a serious lack of reading comprehension skills
6. You demonstrated a continual need to put words into my mouth that were never said
7. You demonstrated a complete and utter reluctance to address logical analysis of the issues, instead resorting to continual whining

Notice that nowhere on that list is: "I didn't like your opinion".

If the reasons you give for continuing this screed were correct, you could have stopped the first time I told you I meant something different than what you thought when you read my first comment. You could have acknowledged that you'd found what you were looking for when I said my first comment was overstated, or later when I said I misspoke or used poor word choices. But none of that would have given you the excuse to say this, to say it repeatedly before now in crude attempts to insult me throughout this thread.


I insult people I don't respect, who lie about what I said, who duck the issues while claiming they're being picked on, who try worming their way out of every insane claim they make instead of owning up to them.

This is why you are so determined to hand me a script where I defend a position I never held, do not hold, nor have any interest in. This is why you are a troll. And this is why I am leaving you to your bitterness and made-up stories. I'm just not leaving you with your transparent illusions about it.


No one is trying to "hand you a script where you defend a position you never held". That is all part of your delusion. I have given you many opportunities to actually address the details of the spell and debate the spell itself and its merits in context. I offered to just wipe the board and forget the idiotic, insane claims you made and get right to the factual details of the matter. Instead you want to keep whining about how mean I am to you. Well keep whining, snowflake. I don't tolerate people like you.

Now go start drafting your next "poor me" victim reply where you whine about me being a meanie to you and misunderstanding and misinterpreting you, and figure out what new words you're going to put into my mouth and accuse me of saying without being able to show a quote of me actually saying it. You're a pathetic person, a sad joke.

I'll await your next reply. And just a heads up - I'm going to be prepping tomorrow (Monday) for the big celebration on Tuesday - Independence Day (you probably only know it as the 4th of July). And on the 4th I'll be busy. So if you slip in another insane, rambling rant about being misunderstood and harassed, don't assume you've "shut me up" if you don't hear a reply sooner than usual. I'd just feel so bad if I had to come back in a day or two, burst your bubble, and hand your ass to you for the 40th time or so.

I look forward to your next insane, poorly-written, illogical whiny rant so I can slap you down again. Yes, I am a bit sadistic. :twisted: I'm not ashamed to admit that. And since you're such a glutton for punishment, the next slapping down I give you should make you as happy as the last couple of dozen slapping downs.
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